Rant on Errata and what Wizards need to do to move forward.

[Nemesis Destiny]

They were not making a profit and they have been cancelled. Partly because not enough people were buying them

It was clarified somewhere (I don't recall where) that a major contributing factor for them pulling the minis line was the increasing cost of the plastic they were using to make them.

 

[MrMyth]

Develop products and release them when they've been properly playtested and are READY for release. Not before. Create a solid, well developed base of products that work when bought off the shelf, and branch out from there.

As noted - this requires a lot more time and effort on each product. So, are you suggesting they increase the cost of each book?

Give customers the choice of being able to run and play D&D using a single app, not 3 or 4 buggy, very underdeveloped and unreliable programmes. It seems nobody is reading half of the NEW threads on how horrible the new CB is.

The online CB was released several months ago, and is getting better all the time. Do you honestly believe they aren't trying to improve the current programs into an effective product? Or do you truly believe they can magically pull a single perfect program out of thin air?

Creating what you are looking for is precisely what they are trying to do.

And, once again, many of the complaints about the CB have already been addressed. Sure, the core issues - like being an online program - aren't changing, but that doesn't have much to do with how effective the program itself actually is.

What new threads have you been reading that talk about current problems with the CB?

If the board games and children's novels are working, then good. I don't believe they are. I have no access to the sales figures and I believe neither does anyone here on these boards. Simply speculating is a waste of time.

On the one hand, you point to threads about the CB's problems in order to argue against those who actually use the CB. But you appear to have missed the many threads demonstrating how impressed folks are with the board games. They have been pointed out as one of WotC's big successes of the last year.

Even many who are not fans of 4E have said they find them worthwhile purchases. And it is true we can't tell for sure how good the sales are, but the fact that WotC is lining up several more such products seems promising.

What I find interesting is the number of posts that claim to know figures and numbers and man hours involved in all of the development processes at work at WotC. Who here is really privy to the budgets, man hours, business models and risks to markets and all the rest of the jargon thrown about here as if you're all having lunch with the Wizards bosses and asking them as you type?

Well, not us. But also... not you.

And it doesn't really require exact numbers to know that what you are asking for would largely involve a lot more investment of resources. Months of extra testing for each book to make sure the content is perfect? Developing instantaneously a perfect digital program for the game, and reworking their entire system process for content distribution?

All of that takes time and money. And while your proposed system might offer some nice new features for the customers, it doesn't seem likely to do the same for WotC itself.

I'm not saying there aren't good ideas scattered amongst your suggestions. But making this sort of thing happen is just not that simple. It isn't just a matter of wanting it to be so, and it happening. And without acknowledging that, most folks are, yes, going to dismiss your points right off the bat.

 

[buddhafrog]

The new CB is slick.



Because paying $6/month for access to all rules material printed for the entire game of D&D 4e is way cheaper than buying every book ever released piecemeal. I did that in 3.5. I have had a taste of total information access, and it would be awful to go back.

In 2010, WotC released no fewer than 20 supplements containing new material that I wanted to have access to. Had I purchased them all individually, I would be out over $300. Instead, I paid $72 and got access to all the rules elements I could handle, and only had to buy the books I felt would be useful to have at the table.

How in the world would the model you're proposing improve things?

for one year.

only.

 

[Ourph]

for one year.

only.

Year one: $300 worth of books released. $72 to access all $300 worth of content.
Year two: $300 worth of books released. $72 to access all $600 worth of content.
Year three: $300 worth of books released. $72 to access all $900 worth of content.

Sounds like a pretty sweet deal to me.

 

[webrunner]

Year one: $300 worth of books released. $72 to access all $300 worth of content.
Year two: $300 worth of books released. $72 to access all $600 worth of content.
Year three: $300 worth of books released. $72 to access all $900 worth of content.

Sounds like a pretty sweet deal to me.

PEDANTIC RESPONSE TIME

"all" content minus most fluff, as well as missing Tiamat (draconomicon) and Item Sets (AV2)

 

[Ninja-to]

Ninja-to, if you want to be upset, that's your perogative, but can you at least stop belittling an entire demographic by calling the comic books childrens books? There's a pretty big difference between the two.

I love comics. What the hell are you talking about?

When I mentioned children's books, I was talking about just that: children's books. I never mentioned comics being only for children.

 

[Ninja-to]

I was, without a doubt, one of the more critical fans when the new Character Builder came out. Seriously, if you can search, look it up.

Don't base your opinions off of whining, especially in the WotC forums. While I'm glad I can get there from work these days (bizarrely), they are about the whiniest forums I have visited.

Right now, I'll go so far as to say the online version is just fine. It could be better in a few areas, but I don't want to tear my face off ten seconds after booting it, and it's no wackier in rules than the offline version.

-O

I'm basing my opinion not on threads but on using it just days ago. It's still awful. I'm not going to waste time talking about the same things people are still posting constantly in other threads.

 

[Ninja-to]

Whilst you have some fair arguments you cannot on one had say "If the board games and children's novels are working, then good. I don't believe they are." and then on the other hand call people out for "pulling information out of their ass". In stating that you don't believe a product is selling well, you are pulling that information out of your ass just as much as people who are saying they are doing well.

Also you seem to be part of the problem you are actually painting.
In an earlier post you stated that you thought the mini line was a good idea and that WoTC were making a profit on it, but you don't buy them.
They were not making a profit and they have been cancelled. Partly because not enough people were buying them

Read more carefully. "IF" is typed there. This means that I acknowledge the fact that I don't have the information in front of me to claim one or the other, and simply speculate. This is totally different from the droves of self-proclaimed marketing experts here that seem to have all the facts and figures of WotC's sales and costs. So, put simply, I know that I don't have that information, and was requesting that others stop pretending they do.

And on the same token, my comment on the mini line was also speculative. If they were making money, good. My point was simply that they could be doing more with the brand. The minis seemed like a decent idea that has finally run dry.

 

[Ninja-to]

Year one: $300 worth of books released. $72 to access all $300 worth of content.
Year two: $300 worth of books released. $72 to access all $600 worth of content.
Year three: $300 worth of books released. $72 to access all $900 worth of content.

Sounds like a pretty sweet deal to me.

Yeah it's a sweet deal for you, but not for Wizards.

This is my point exactly. People will stop buying rushed, unfinished work in print form especially when they had the option of the CB which gets updated constantly. CB was like a lifeline, more for us than for them, which got cut when the new CB rolled out unexpectedly. Now the people who stopped buying shoddily edited books and opted for the digital (old) CB were told that the only thing they were willing to spend money on was cancelled. Not a surprise that Wizards is now in deep water. Yes, there are some that are happy with the new CB. There are many, many more who have cancelled their DDI subscriptions solely because of it.

What should have happened is that the old CB was maintained as it was, improved upon (rather than divide resources to a newer but inferior tool) and refocus on cleaning up the the print side of production. Release less, but make more money from people actually buying the books due to regained confidence in them. You can print 100 books a month, but if they're riddled with typos, errors and are planned poorly, how is it surprising that few people will buy them.

Suggesting slowing down production to fix poor workmanship would drive up costs and reduce revenue makes no sense. It should have the totally opposite effect. I see 4th Ed books on the shelves in stores and just keep walking due to the fact I know a fair chunk of the material needs errata. For some, they don't care. They are happy to sit there with pages of errata, read it or glue it into their books or whatever it is they do. Personally it's not for me and the rest of my gaming group feels the same.

I think Wizards slowing down production to make their material better quality is a very good thing. However, the timing is bad. It is now at a point where I believe many consumers such as myself have lost trust and faith in the products. The pirates are still winning. Sadly it is much safer to wait a few months and see how much errata is released rather than actually buy the book. If the errata goes on for 5+ pages... that book just doesn't get purchased, at least by me. I suspect there are many others who feel the same.

For those who keep asking about 'recent threads' about CB and DDI in general. The original post is 2 days old.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-discussion/303305-can-wizards-turn-around-their-d-d-support.html

 

[Mithreinmaethor]

Yeah it's a sweet deal for you, but not for Wizards.

This is my point exactly. People will stop buying rushed, unfinished work in print form especially when they had the option of the CB which gets updated constantly. CB was like a lifeline, more for us than for them, which got cut when the new CB rolled out unexpectedly. Now the people who stopped buying shoddily edited books and opted for the digital (old) CB were told that the only thing they were willing to spend money on was cancelled. Not a surprise that Wizards is now in deep water.

What should have happened is that the old CB was maintained as it was, improved upon (rather than divide resources to a newer but inferior tool) and refocus on cleaning up the the print side of production. Release less, but make more money from people actually buying the books due to regained confidence in them. You can print 100 books a month, but if they're riddled with typos, errors and are planned poorly, how is it surprising that few people will buy them.

Suggesting slowing down production to fix poor workmanship would drive up costs and reduce revenue makes no sense. It should have the totally opposite effect. I see 4th Ed books on the shelves in stores and just keep walking due to the fact I know a fair chunk of the material needs errata. For some, they don't care. They are happy to sit there with pages of errata, read it or glue it into their books or whatever it is they do. Personally it's not for me and the rest of my gaming group feels the same.

I think Wizards slowing down production to make their material better quality is a very good thing. However, the timing is bad. It is now at a point where I believe many consumers such as myself have lost trust and faith in the products. The pirates are still winning. Sadly it is much safer to wait a few months and see how much errata is released rather than actually buy the book. If the errata goes on for 5+ pages... that book just doesn't get purchased, at least by me. I suspect there are many others who feel the same.

For those who keep asking about 'recent threads' about CB and DDI in general. The original post is 2 days old.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-discussion/303305-can-wizards-turn-around-their-d-d-support.html

Come back when you have a rant that isn't old and dated.