D&D General A Rant: DMing is not hard.

[Mecheon]

They don't give HUGE discounts on car insurance to people with A licenses for nothing.

Hate to tear back the curtain a bit but uh, as someone in the industry who specifically is involved in commercial vehicles? Not something we ask at our end

Mind every insurer has its own things and, just, your average commercial vehicle fleet is going to be large enough you're not going to be asking driver to driver questions. A semi's probably cheaper than what you'd expect on the policy,

And that means nothing, because I've played with multiple great DMs who haven't. I'm not the one claiming objective fact to subjective things. You are. You can't point to a single technique or rule from any game that will objectively improve D&D. You simply can't do it, because no such rule or technique exists. Every last one of them is subjective. As is, by the way, DM greatness. Mercer is good, but I wouldn't call him great. I've played with better(again subjective opinion as this all is.)

I would argue it would help with onboarding new people though. You've been playing D&D for ages, you're already well into it, but new people come. 5E's good at the onboarding process but imagine something like the nightmare of character building that is 3.5E instead. If you had ways from other gamers to explain that to newcomers, it could help them get in. Heck, even folks raised on one edition of D&D who ignore others.

I just got to watch this exact scenario play out with a friend. She has never done any sort of TTRPG, but due to a failed attempt to get a D&D session off the ground, at least has a vague knowledge therein of 5E stuff. She's in a World of Warcraft guild, and despite being an MMO, WoW has a pseudo TTRPG scene going on, not really using a system so much as just a vague "Roll d20, highest wins" type of deal. Your average bones.

Her World of Warcraft guild decides to try and set up a thing using a modified one based on the 2d20 system. So, y'know, you've just set up a roll under system on someone who is so completely outside the TTRPG sphere she has genuinely never heard of 'roll under' being a way to do things. This GM does not explain this in a way that is helpful for what is basically a new player. I, as someone who's at least got experience with all of this, manage to help her through it, but the GM not really helping things has pretty much turned her off any roll under system for life, simply because it was explained poorly.

(i could though point to many technique or rules from any game to improve. Certain editions of D&D, though. Most of these come down to 'why are grapple rules', mind.)

 

[AlViking]

Sigh.

So, every car insurance company in the world giving you massive discounts on your car insurance isn't proof that having a truck license doesn't make you a better driver?

What evidence would you like?

Again, as I said earlier, that's the perfect encapsulation of exactly the issue when talking about running other games making you a better DM. There is absolutely no proof that will be accepted. Nothing. Doesn't matter what evidence is brought forward. Nothing will break through that rock hard shell of being absolutely convinced that a person is right based on zero evidence or actual facts.

A quick search says that having a CDL (Commercial Drivers License) does not by itself lower premiums. From Does Having a CDL Lower Your Car Insurance Rates?

"In general, having a CDL on its own does not directly lower your personal car insurance costs with most insurance companies.
...
So while the advanced training and skills required to get a CDL could imply lower risk, insurance companies simply don’t correlate CDL status with decreased chances of accidents the way you might expect."

Some companies do provide discounts for defensive driving courses that apply to cars.

Edit - ninja'd by a couple of people.

 

[Seramus]

My premium is sadly not lower despite having a CDL.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

What you just told me was that driving those vehicles gave you a heightened vigilance to avoid things that don't really matter to cars, because they have the larger margin of error, but I doubt that's the message you wanted to convey.

Now maybe it's because I live in Los Angeles, where they have added multiple lanes to the freeways without actually widening the freeways, so the lanes are incredibly narrow. There is no or little margin for error, especially when driving next to a semi, so I have that heightened vigilance you mention. I'm aware of everything around me, since Los Angeles drivers are also very crappy drivers in general. I drive expecting everyone around me to try and kill me with their vehicle. I'm also watching several cars out, because those folks can kill me by getting into an accident in front of me. As I result, I'm really good at avoiding incidents to the point where I have had people in my car tell me that they are glad they weren't driving, because they would have gotten into the accident.

All without ever having driven those large vehicles.

"Prove it."
"Oh, none of that meets the requirements I didn't specify in advance, so you proved nothing."

Are these goalposts military kids? Because they're moving so often I don't think they can form meaningful long-term relationships with their peers.

 

[Seramus]

"Prove it."
"Oh, none of that meets the requirements I didn't specify in advance, so you proved nothing."

Are these goalposts military kids? Because they're moving so often I don't think they can form meaningful long-term relationships with their peers.

We're probably getting lost in the weeds. Even if Maxperson is personally an excellent driver, his own skills are not necessarily relevant to whether most drivers would benefit from such training.

 

[Maxperson]

I would argue it would help with onboarding new people though. You've been playing D&D for ages, you're already well into it, but new people come. 5E's good at the onboarding process but imagine something like the nightmare of character building that is 3.5E instead. If you had ways from other gamers to explain that to newcomers, it could help them get in. Heck, even folks raised on one edition of D&D who ignore others.

I just got to watch this exact scenario play out with a friend. She has never done any sort of TTRPG, but due to a failed attempt to get a D&D session off the ground, at least has a vague knowledge therein of 5E stuff. She's in a World of Warcraft guild, and despite being an MMO, WoW has a pseudo TTRPG scene going on, not really using a system so much as just a vague "Roll d20, highest wins" type of deal. Your average bones.

Her World of Warcraft guild decides to try and set up a thing using a modified one based on the 2d20 system. So, y'know, you've just set up a roll under system on someone who is so completely outside the TTRPG sphere she has genuinely never heard of 'roll under' being a way to do things. This GM does not explain this in a way that is helpful for what is basically a new player. I, as someone who's at least got experience with all of this, manage to help her through it, but the GM not really helping things has pretty much turned her off any roll under system for life, simply because it was explained poorly.

(i could though point to many technique or rules from any game to improve. Certain editions of D&D, though. Most of these come down to 'why are grapple rules', mind.)

This isn't a case of multiple systems being better. It's a case of the DM not doing his job. When it comes to 3e, you're far better off with a DM who has mastered that system and can explain it, than be with a DM who only sort of knows it, but also sort of knows 3 or 4 other systems.

As for grapple rules, that can be an improvement for some or even many, but not an objective improvement. I'm sure there are folks who liked the grapple rules for the various editions. There's no rule or technique from another game that can objectively improve D&D if brought over.

 

[Maxperson]

"Prove it."
"Oh, none of that meets the requirements I didn't specify in advance, so you proved nothing."

Are these goalposts military kids? Because they're moving so often I don't think they can form meaningful long-term relationships with their peers.

No goalposts were moved. None of what was described objectively improves the ability to drive for everyone. You can in fact get those skills elsewhere, including just driving cars. As such, it did not prove what was required, which I will quote since you seem to think it wasn't said in advance.

"Prove it then. How specifically will it directly and objectively translate into increased ability to drive my car?"

 

[Maxperson]

A quick search says that having a CDL (Commercial Drivers License) does not by itself lower premiums. From Does Having a CDL Lower Your Car Insurance Rates?

"In general, having a CDL on its own does not directly lower your personal car insurance costs with most insurance companies.
...
So while the advanced training and skills required to get a CDL could imply lower risk, insurance companies simply don’t correlate CDL status with decreased chances of accidents the way you might expect."

Some companies do provide discounts for defensive driving courses that apply to cars.

Edit - ninja'd by a couple of people.

I just assumed the claim was true, especially because the claim didn't prove what it was claimed to be proving. Objective improvement.

 

[Maxperson]

We're probably getting lost in the weeds. Even if Maxperson is personally an excellent driver, his own skills are not necessarily relevant to whether most drivers would benefit from such training.

Sure. My points are that 1) they don't objectively improve driving skills, and 2) that you can get that skill from just driving cars(even if it's less common). Though it hasn't even be proved that most drivers would get better.

With RPGs there's no objective improvement to a D&D game happening simply because you've learned or read other systems. Nothing can be ported over to a D&D that will objectively improve the game. Anything brought over or used by a DM will be liked by some and disliked by others, making improvement subjective improvement at best, and subjectively ruin the game at worst.

 

[AnotherGuy]

Is it too soon to propose name change for the thread A Rant: Driving is not hard