Mapache
Explorer
I never applied the August 2010 update, as I had let my DDI lapse at the point, and my older copy is unusably data-lossy.
D&D 4E What I want from 4E DnD in 3 simple steps.
I never applied the August 2010 update, as I had let my DDI lapse at the point, and my older copy is unusably data-lossy.
delericho
Legend
The existence of weaknesses in 3.5e does not in any way excuse those same weaknesses in 4e. Also, there is nothing wrong in requesting more support for areas where it is seen to be lacking.
The "Epic Level Handbook" was a 3.0e book; a condensed version of those rules was in the 3.5e DMG. In any case, the ELH was poorly implemented, but it did represent significant support.
(That's also aside from the issue that 4e Epic levels are more akin to 3.5e High levels (13-20) than to 3e Epic levels.)
In any event, there is much more to Epic support than just bland lists of powers and monsters. What is needed is actual Epic adventures (sorely lacking for 3e Epic levels, to be sure), and solid advice to DMs on what Epic characters should be doing, how to handle play at those levels, and so on. Indeed, even a clear statement on what Epic play is intended to represent would be a good start!
Again, no. DDI subscribers are paying for a toolset that, at the moment, is far short of what was promised and which is, in some instances, simply not fit for purpose. They're absolutely right to be complaining.
(In fact, the only thing they're doing wrong is continuing to subscribe. Frankly, they should cancel en masse until WotC actually put out the tools in a working state.)
WotC probably should not have put out the offline fully-featured builders, it is true. But having done so, when they found they had to replace them, they should have made damn sure that the replacements were at least as good from day one. It is a very basic DMing lesson - it's much easier to give too little and then add more, than to give too much and have to take it away.
Calling people "spoiled childs" is really not helpful.
Peraion Graufalke
First Post
What's the build number of your MB?
The 1.0.26.0 build I'm using sometimes messes up a monster's hit points, but I haven't noticed any bugs beside that.
UngeheuerLich
Legend
But it shows the impossibility of supporting everything. I am paying and I am a happy customer... (not that I could be not even more happy with a better Monster builder etc)
It is not as bad as you make it up. It costs less than a trip to MC Donald. And it is much more enjoyable than an MMORPG...
It is not as bad as you make it up. It costs less than a trip to MC Donald. And it is much more enjoyable than an MMORPG...
1. I'm with you on this. My Human Chucking Seeker need some lovin', although partially in the form of a +3 proficiency throwing weapon that does more than a d6. Plus, the Prescient Bard needs another decent at-will. Jinx Shot is fine for one but there's no other option.
2. I'm looking forward to Epic too and wanting to see some more beasties filling teh tier.
3. I admit, I don't really care about this one any more. I used the old one some but found adjusting current monsters less cumbersome than loading it. The offline tools were a real pain for me.
delericho
Legend
Sure, no doubt. At the same time, if someone's favourite class is, say, the Artificer, then there's nothing surprising in them wanting additional support for that class. Nor in them asking for it - if nothing else, it lets WotC know of the demand.
(Of course, WotC are also free to judge whether the demand warrants additional support being provided. If it's just not economical, then they won't.)
I'm glad. (Sincerely - that's not sarcasm.)
Unfortunately, it is.
The Character Builder has improved a lot, but still has some major bugs (A4 printing). Dragon and Dungeon have been reduced in content. Dungeon, in particular, promises several adventures per month; it's been several months since they achieved that. So, those areas do fall short of the promised functionality.
As for "not fit for purpose" - at present the Monster Builder only allows levelling monsters and mild reflavouring. It doesn't actually allow people to build new monsters. So, yeah, that's a major failing.
Now, I can readily understand you (or anyone else) taking the view that the offering as it stands is entirely worth the monthly subscription. That's your call to make as you see fit.
At the same time, I really can't fault people who aren't happy with what they're being offered. (With the one caveat that if they're not happy then they shouldn't just complain; they should unsubscribe, and ask for a refund if applicable.)
delericho
Legend
Incidentally, three things that WotC could do to make me really happy:
1) Wait 2 years...
2) Contact my currently employer, and arrange to subcontract my services for a period of 3 years...
3) Put me in charge of the development and grand strategy for 5e, with a huge budget, and carte blanche to fix the whole thing.
I don't think that's completely unreasonable...
(Okay, yes it is, but I can dream can't I?)
And guess what? A lot of people aren't and not because they are "spoilt children" (I think you're the first person on this forum to have genuinely managed to insult me) but because they are very unhappy with the fact DDI is providing less and less value. While Dungeon seems to have stemmed the bleeding and "rot" that it has gone through, Dragon is a miserable magazine with very little value anymore and offers essentially nothing like it used to. So let's compare with last year, before Dark Sun came out I was getting:
1) A decentish Dragon magazine. It wasn't great, but it was miles better than it is now.
2) A decent but not amazing Dungeon magazine. In fairness filled with delves so anyone who says that Dungeon is probably a bit better now I would accept.
3) A buggy, but entirely functional monster builder that I believed would soon be fixed. So I didn't mind the now very chronic issues that it has.
4) A perfectly cromulent character builder that actually, you know, let me build characters. As an added bonus it even let me have more than twenty of them.
Now it is like this:
1) Rubbish. There is barely any content in the magazine anymore.
2) I actually will say this might be at the same level or better, thanks to the one man show named Robert J. Schwalb.
3) They released a monster builder, that couldn't actually build any god damn monsters. Of course I would love to bet that when it can, it will have some stupid limitation to the number of creatures I can make. Convenient when in epic tier due to wizards lacking support, I need to make around 50+ creatures just to fill out non-demon rank and file monsters. Then again, maybe I can just write every epic tier campaign to use demons! (which actually isn't anywhere near as absurd as it sounds as an idea - it's just I'd like to use something else).
4) I've never been able to build a single character in the OCB. Not since its release. Crashing on start up or during character creation - for whatever reason - is the norm. If I did get it working at this point, I would fill it up with epic level runepriests/seekers/artificers just to spite wizards. Although I do not play DnD, this was arguably one of my most useful tools that I owned. It let me track magic items, keep all my PCs characters on my machine (for playtesting purposes, that is *invaluable*), print them off to have at my IRL game/computer side etc. Now? Well I get zero value out of this.
So when just last year I was paying for the four things above and perfectly happy to do so - hell even just the monster builder alone - now I am paying the same amount and happy with nothing. That is not being a spoiled child, that is recognizing when you've just been utterly screwed by a company that you had loyally supported. Especially given that I was one of the first DDI subscribers as well. I subscribed straight away when the option came up due to the early Dungeon/Dragon issues - with only a promise of the CB/MB to come as well. Speaking of have you ever read those again recently? You should as it's illuminating.
So when I write "All I want is a working monster builder" I am being more than generous to Wizards. As for the other points:
Wow! That is me so very wrong! Wait, this is 4th edition. Let me go check my books.
.....
Oh yeah! It is 4th edition we're discussing. I don't care what a broken terrible system did or didn't do. I am talking about what a formerly really great system did successfully do. For almost 2 years at that. It is only very recently they have failed at this at all. The point I made as well was not demanding support. I merely want a definitive answer if they will be supported. Don't let people cling to hope when there is none: just give a nice straight answer so everyone can move on with life.
There is a massive difference between these two comments. Before taking an incredibly insulting attitude and declaring me a "spoiled child", I would sincerely appreciate you actually read what I actually wrote first.
I don't care what 3rd edition did. I really absolutely 100% do not care. It's not relevant because this is 4th edition and 4th edition has done great with this. Again, until very recently. Monster Manual 3 and the Dark Sun Creature Catalog added quite a lot of epic monsters - supporting all three tiers. Since essentials, all of a sudden monster books do not publish barely any epic monsters anymore. Asking for either an explanation from wizards "No we are not going to support epic tier" or for something to actually be done about it (adventures would be good too, responding to someone else) is not being a "spoiled child" to use your derisive term. I think it is perfectly reasonable to ask why this edition has entirely dropped support that it was reliably providing.
In fact really my entire points 1/2 are merely about asking wizards straight if they are going to bother continuing to support those elements. I am not demanding support for those elements: Merely answers if they will. If I know there is no more epic support coming, then that is fine. It's time to think about running my games only to level 20. I would rather an answer than plan for an epic campaign, only to get bogged down again hoping for support while the immense workload because of having to make a lot of stuff myself.
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