Newbie to Sigil seeks DMing advice

[Banshee16]

I also need some red herrings. Most of the factions are assumed to be gone in the 4e version, but based on what i'm reading it seems like the dustmen or the xaositechts would be good candidates for bait when the PCs initially assume the key was taken by force. I also need a group that would be likely to pay big money for a key to the material plane and what their motivation for getting it would be. I'll work out the details as I go but mostly I really want to create some atmosphere. Thanks again for all the responses!

I can't claim to speak for the 4E version, as I haven't seen it. I *can* say that 3E assumed post Faction War....but that doesn't mean the Factions are gone......just that they're no longer in charge, and certain ones have been destroyed or merged.

The guide to Sigil was an invaluable book to me....if you can find a PDF of it, it's got everything...ward by ward breakdowns, restaurant menus....all kinds of little tips and flavour nuggets. I used them extensively. And there are some great NPCs that can be used....Kylie the Tout, Shemeshka the Marauder, etc. Kylie's an easy way to teach them about Sigil. If they're totally confused when they come through a portal, have a character like her offer to guide them around.

By far, my favourite setting from TSR. I ran it for 10 years and absolutely loved it .

Banshee

 

[Badwe]

Yeah, the 4e one goes into detail on a few that still survive in some form, such as the Sons of Mercy being derived from Mercykillers. I absolutely intend to employ some of the factions, but more as underground operatives than well-known and well established. Unfortunately this is going to be just a sniff of sigil, literally covering a portion of going from level 11 (at the end of pyramid of shadows) to level 12 (where revenge of the giants begin) but i knew from the moment i read about sigil in DMG2 (bought it right when it came out, do the math) that I needed to have the PCs at least stop there briefly.

I'm going to have to look for the guide to sigil, that sounds like it's right up my alley. I need deep wells of fluff and flavor to draw from so I can make the city feel very full.

Ravenous sounds interesting, i've never heard of it before so i'll have to investigate further. Apocolyptica.... it's very dramatic music and i like it a lot but for me it conjures images of barren and desolate landscapes. I haven't actually heard cirque de soliel music so i'll have to look into that too. Interestingly the wikipedia entry specifically mentions philip glass as something the original author listened to for inspiration... maybe my vision of sigil is off from the original intent. I'm imagining cosmopolotan and very busy, but perhaps it's more of an odd-ball, city of the mad type place?

 

[ThirdWizard]

Interestingly the wikipedia entry specifically mentions philip glass as something the original author listened to for inspiration... maybe my vision of sigil is off from the original intent. I'm imagining cosmopolotan and very busy, but perhaps it's more of an odd-ball, city of the mad type place?

It completely depends on where you go. The Hive is a totally different place from the Lady's Ward. The Clerk's Ward is different than the Lower Ward. Dealing with the Guvners is going to be different than dealing with the Xaositects. Etc etc. And, even in these places, the feel can change dramatically. That's one of the great things about Sigil. You can have a campaign (and I have) in which a vast majority of the action takes place there, even though its a city. You can hobnob with the rich at an expensive party, go to an underground fight club, raid a crypt, and haggle with an efreeti merchant all in the same day, within a few miles of each other. And more!

That also means that different people might have very different ideas pop into their heads when you mention Sigil. Would you say you're more interested in giving them a taste of a lot of different parts, or delving more into a specific area of the city?

 

[Badwe]

I would say multiple parts, but not all of them. I want to give them the impression that there are distinct wards but not necessarily have them visit them all since this should last roughly what half a level would last (i'm not using XP for this particular stretch specifically because otherwise it would be too hard to balance)

 

[Zinovia]

I haven't run Sigil before but am interested in it as part of my 4E campaign. The information here has been great. The factions sound interesting, but I'm not sure why they diminished their influence in 4E. Perhaps it was done to give the place a more coherent feel, or just for the sake of simplification. I could see tracking the PCs reputation with different groups based on how they interact with each - kind of how MMOs do.

Your courier plot is cool. I may need to yoink that. . I also should think more about background music for my game. I use it very rarely, but it can definitely help add atmosphere. I concur on using some of the Cirque du Soleil music, it has a kind of surrealistic quality that would fit well.

 

[Badwe]

the DMG2 for 4e has the biggest writeup for the city. In regards to the factions it describes how a war between them nearly tore sigil apart and the lady of pain issued a rare proclamation: "You are no longer welcome here, disband or die". It then describes a few groups that emerged from the wreckage, like the sons of mercy, the council of sigil, and the trade consortium.

It does seem to make sigil out to be a bit more of a lawless or at least law-light place. I can easily envsiion the factions, since they are oriented by philosophy, still operating in small groups, trying desperately to evade the notice of the lady. it also specifically mentions that guilds have become more prominent with the dispersal of the factions.

It seems like the changes are A) to keep the "timeline" in tact and to make sigil a bit more condusive to 4e-style adventuring.

At this point I'm working on some of the details for how the PCs will investigate the mystery. I know murder mysteries are notoriously difficult to pull off in RPGs. My plan is to combine a skill challenge with a stack of note cards with clues on them. I don't know if this is a good idea, but my instinct is to literally mimic clue the boardgame and use the clue cards to slowly eliminate suspects, times of the murder, and motives from a list. As the 4e books extoll, i intend to have failing the challenge entail still solving the mystery, but getting beaten to the punch by a rival team of investigators and thus not getting paid (or only getting paid in part).

I also need to come up with "complications" that can arise when they fail a check. I'm thinking run-ins that are about a 50-50 chance to turn into a fist fight. Maybe a group of thugs are "collecting a toll" and the party could opt to just pay them, or try to intimidate them. Another will be a pickpocket or a con-man, and they can decide weather to accept the loss or chase after them when the clock is ticking. I'd love to hear suggestions that are more specific to sigil than just a generic urban setting, or ways to make those two ideas more sigil-y.

 

[ThirdWizard]

I might be about to show off my lack of knowledge about Faction War, but I never read it, don't pay attention to the consequences of it, and have run Planescape as per the original boxed set since it was released in... 1992? So, bear with me.

Thug Toll
The PCs are falling behind and to catch up need to take a short cut through a bad part of the Lower Ward or a rival group will reach an important contact first! Unfortunately, they run across a group of lesser devils, abishai (or whatever you like). They taunt the PCs, telling them that they've wandered too far from their nests and they are highly encouraged to pay the gang, who happens to be surrounding them, a fee to help them find their way back to a more friendly area. There are dangerous people about, after all.

Con Man
The PCs have failed a skill challenge and find that they aren't sure where they are. The area looks run down and they thought they were headed further into the Clerk's Ward, where it should be nicer. They know they were skirting the Hive and hope that they didn't get turned around somewhere. Passer-bys watch them carefully, and nobody seems very trustworthy.

They run across a smiling tielfing taut who is more than happy to help, for a small fee. He tells them that they did wander into the Hive, but they aren't too far in, and he can take them out. He's being truthful about taking them into the Clerk's Ward, but the trick is that he's setting them up to take the fall for a recent murder. If they follow him, not catching onto his underlying underhandedness, they find themselves in an alley with a dead body in it. The tiefling is gone, and they hear the sound of a Harmonium patrol coming on them fast.

 

[Quickleaf]

At this point I'm working on some of the details for how the PCs will investigate the mystery. I know murder mysteries are notoriously difficult to pull off in RPGs. My plan is to combine a skill challenge with a stack of note cards with clues on them. I don't know if this is a good idea, but my instinct is to literally mimic clue the boardgame and use the clue cards to slowly eliminate suspects, times of the murder, and motives from a list. As the 4e books extoll, i intend to have failing the challenge entail still solving the mystery, but getting beaten to the punch by a rival team of investigators and thus not getting paid (or only getting paid in part).

Sounds great

I've had great success merging skill challenges and logic puzzles. It requires a bit of forethought but it would dovetail great with your clue boardgame type setup. If you want you could also have failure provide misinformation about the target/objective.

I also need to come up with "complications" that can arise when they fail a check. I'm thinking run-ins that are about a 50-50 chance to turn into a fist fight. Maybe a group of thugs are "collecting a toll" and the party could opt to just pay them, or try to intimidate them. Another will be a pickpocket or a con-man, and they can decide weather to accept the loss or chase after them when the clock is ticking. I'd love to hear suggestions that are more specific to sigil than just a generic urban setting, or ways to make those two ideas more sigil-y.

Thugs might be Sodkillers pretending to be official guards who created some trumped up charges to bully the PCs into paying. If you DDi, Dragon #370 has an article on the Mercykillers (whom the Sodkillers 'descended' from).

Pickpocket might be a young wererat descended shifter who comes back later. If dealt with harshly, sells info about PCs to the group they're chasing. If treated kindly, offers to be their tout (guide) with his stolen wand of light and knowledge of Sigil's streets. If ignored, he might show up later getting threatened by a group of adventurers competing with PCs.

Another fun complication could be a portal mishap/trap, when suddenly a bunch of portals flare to life, maybe give the PCs a sequence/pattern code to crack within a certain time or they get teleported somewhere else in Sigil, burned/frozen on a jaunt through the planes, trapping them in a certain location for a time, or (if you feel up to it as a DM) separating the party.


Btw music I used in my old planescape campaign included Peter Gabriel, Corvus Corvax, and some of David Arkenstone's "darker" stuff... that's when we weren't listening to Live or Creed.

Also, the Wizards Vault has the audio from Player's Primer to the Outlands CD (you'll need RealPlayer): D&D - From the Vault Presents: A Player's Primer to the Outlands CD

It's got a bit of atmospheric music and introduces some of the cant used in planescape. Ok, some of the sound effects are terrible

 

[Badwe]

Btw music I used in my old planescape campaign included Peter Gabriel, Corvus Corvax, and some of David Arkenstone's "darker" stuff... that's when we weren't listening to Live or Creed.

I'm very intrigued by this player's guide to planescape but i'll have to wait until i get home since i'd rather not install realplayer on my work PC.


Oh Live and Creed, to be in the 90s again.


I like the idea of a portal being an inconvenience, and it should give the players with skill in arcana (and most of my party has the skill) something to roll against. Perhaps a sufficiently high arcana roll will help them avoid too much time lost. I have the mercykillers article queued up, I'll be reading it when I get home, I had no idea something like that had been written in 4e. I wonder how many other sigil/planescape rooted 4e articles have been in dragon while evading my notice.

This is a little more 4e-oriented as opposed to generalist, but I think I'd like to be able to let the players auto-succeed by using certain rituals (especially scrying/divination ones) as well as hint at certain effective ones they should consider casting. I don't just mean for this mission in sigil i have specifically envisioned, but I'm curious if anyone with a decent knowledge of both sigil and 4e could imagine rituals that no cager would want to be without?

 

[ThirdWizard]

Pickpocket might be a young wererat descended shifter who comes back later. If dealt with harshly, sells info about PCs to the group they're chasing. If treated kindly, offers to be their tout (guide) with his stolen wand of light and knowledge of Sigil's streets. If ignored, he might show up later getting threatened by a group of adventurers competing with PCs.

Reminds me of the time our group arrested a Free League bauriaur and the kobold Guvner rode him back to the courthouse with a crossbow at the back of his head. My PC was a harmonium, so I didn't do anything to stop him. That bauriaur was fuming. Unfortunately he got off on a technicality (he hadn't actually broken any laws) and from then on we couldn't actually buy anything in the Market Ward for less than double price and were pretty much pariahs there.

Those were good times.

I like the idea of a portal being an inconvenience, and it should give the players with skill in arcana (and most of my party has the skill) something to roll against.

In 3e, I had a writeup for skill checks against portals. I'll look that up when I get home. It might need some tweaking for 4e play, but we used it for years, and it worked pretty well for us.