Swimming/drowning with armour on

[El Condoro]

This is my first post here, so please bear with me if I seem a bit green! I used to DM aa AD&D 2e campaign back in the 80s but haven't been in touch with D&D until the last couple of years. Things have changed a lot IMO.

Anyway, my question relates to the rules, or lack thereof, for swimming with armour on. I may be missing something but I am wondering how DMs handle a situation such as: PC in plate armour has been pushed off ship at sea. Assume they are trained in Athletics and can swim a bit. Assume they have training in Endurance and a good constitution. My problem is, I don't care how well they can swim or hold their breath, plate armour will drag them to their deaths almost immediately unless they can get it off quickly!

The rules, as I read them, would allow an Athletics (swim) Skill Check (-2 for armour) against a DC if the PC wants to move in the water or an Endurance Skill Check against a DC to stay afloat. My opinion is they sink whatever their skill unless...

House rule:
Each round the PC makes a fairly simple DC check (10).
Round 1: Reflex (PC realises they are sinking and begins to unclasp armour)
Round 2: DEX (unclasping armour)
Succeed: armour is unclasped and sinks to the bottom of the sea but the PC floats
Failure: PC sinks a square and the Suffocation rules in DMG159 apply.

I'm not sure how easy or difficult it is to unclasp plate armour but this at least seems (to me) more 'realistic' than floating with it on. As you can tell, I'm trying to get a handle on the rules and how they might work, so I'm interested if this is how DMs might handle this situation in their games.

Cheers

 

[El Mahdi]

My opinion: it's tough, but possible.

First off, armor will only automatically drag you underwater if you don't attempt to swim. But, even though armor is heavy, relatively it's still lighter in water (water being more dense than air). However, armor is still denser than water and will obviously sink on it's own. But I do think one can swim with armor on, if you're a strong enough swimmer. It won't be easy, probably very difficult, but it can be done at least for short distances. It would jbe a swim check with penalties, with failure not necessarily meaning that you are sinking, only that you are tiring from the effort (limiting how far you can swim - an endurance check, not necessarily a drowning check).

I've heard people saying that the problem isn't just the metal armor you're wearing, but the padding underneath that's getting wet and dragging you under. Firstly, the padding isn't very heavy even on land. Secondly, when people think of how heavy wet padding is, they're thinking about how heavy it is when wet on land. The padding is going to be no heaver in water that it is on land (actually lighter), and probably even has a slightly positive boyancy, even when soaked with water (throw a padded piece of clothing or blanket into water - does it immediately sink? - probably not). The only negative effect is the limit on your limbs mobility. It may significantly slow down or impede your swimming strokes.

As long as one knows how to swim, and keeps swimming (or treading water - floating is definitely out of the question), one can swim in armor for limited distances or periods of time.

Historically, there was eve a Japanese martial art called Suiei-jutsu (Water Combat), that included techniques for swimming in armor. Granted, that was probably leather, padded, and lamellar armors - not full plate or mail - but probably heavy and restricting enough to be comparable.

now, I think it would be absolutely impossible to fight while trying to swim in armor, and if one was able to find their way back out of the water, then the added weight of wet padding would be a significant handicap to movement and fighting also. But is swimming in armor possible? In my opinion, Yes.


Here's an interesting video I found of just such a test. Ugly, very difficult, but possible for very short distances.

 

[Arlough]

I, too, came originally from the AD&D era, and I remember being concerned with things like that, at the time.
But I have taken on a slightly different outlook now.

If I was concerned with simulation, I would not have a guy who can mix up some sulfur and bat guano and launch a monstrous ball of fire at a bunch of tiny lizard men who happen to worship a hyper-intelligent winged allosaurus.
But I really like having a guy who can do just that.

So now, instead of looking at thing and trying to find ways to make them more like the real world, I try to abstract it out to maximize fun.

Sure, having a guy swim in full plate isn't exactly real, but when the party is attacked by a water demon, it's more fun than letting a PC drown for the sake of realism.
So I would advise you to just go with it.

Remember, the PCs are adventurers. Their dump stats are somewhere between exceptional and downright awesome. (If I recall correctly, a strength of 10 is equivalent to an Olympic athlete.)
The PCs are literally the stuff of legends. And that is at level 1! By the beginning of Epic Tier, they are approaching godhood. Revel in the awesome.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

You could rule that the non-magical ac bonus of the armor applies as a penalty to swim and jump checks.. still doable, but not pretty.
Then your nimble thieves won't get out-swam by the lead-covered tank.



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[aurance]

I wouldn't worry too much about swimming in armor, if you don't worry about having to resize armor found in treasure, etc.

 

[frankthedm]

Sure, having a guy swim in full plate isn't exactly real, but when the party is attacked by a water demon, it's more fun than letting a PC drown for the sake of realism.

For some people it's more fun. I find it more fun to play in a game where wearing full plate makes it notably easier to drown.

 

[Arlough]

For some people it's more fun. I find it more fun to play in a game where wearing full plate makes it notably easier to drown.

Sorry I guess my attempt at humor (by referencing realism and a water demon in the same sentence) must have missed the mark.

 

[El Mahdi]

You can talk to the experts- or you can actually TRY it!

Sheeesh! I know better than to do something as silly as that!

Man, I'd sink like a rock! A strong swimmer I am not, nor am I a Hero writ large...though I do play one on weekends.

 

[Darylas]

I don't know if anyone noticed this in the post above or not.

Swimming Test on Vimeo

This guy is not a world class athlete and he is swimming in plate armor.
If 10 str is average then 14 and above str is a very athletically built individual.
People like that who are trained swimmers should not have much of a problem staying afloat.

Now if your 8 str weakling wizard dons full plate and jumps in the water he will sink like a rock.

Just my take on it.

 

[Aspiroth]

Swimming in Plate

We could, as this is Fantasy, let everyone fly without wings, or breathe fire, or wield two bastard swords at once. The same can be said for swimming in plate. And, I mean a suit of plate armour used by medieval knights. Come on, they couldn't even mount a horse without help. If you believe accounts of Agincourt or Crécy, they couldn't even stand up unaided!!

The man in the video may be wearing some metal, but nothing close to a full suit of plate. There is a gap of several inches between the armour on his arms and his breastplate, and he has no chain at all.

The reason you can't swim in plate is not only because of the weight, but because you can't perform the fluid movements necessary. Especially with your legs - the only real flexibility in the knights' armour being that in the arms (required for wielding a weapon).

..and not forgetting, in the medieval times on which most Fantasy is based, most people couldn't swim at all... Hehe!!