Enemy Displacement.

[xigbar]

I was mulling over the idea of a character who specialized in moving quickly, and putting bags of storingover the enemies heads, killing them by suffocation. Is such a specialization possible, and how would I become proficient? If so, let me know about the most efficient example build. I had the similar idea of imbuing weapons with dimension door, and similar effects. Basically, how would I go about defeating enemies by warping them out of the way in related ways?

 

[Tovec]

Moving quickly or moving slowly doesn't really have anything to do with putting bags of storing - do you mean bags of holding? - over heads.

It would be some sort of grapple/pin mechanic replacing the attack and damage with "bag on head".

Also, bags of Holding won't suffocate them, at least not quickly.

I'm positive the magical effects of dimension door and stuff wouldn't work as you are hoping. Even if the spell combination on the weapons is. Any sane or rational DM would just not allow it.

 

[xigbar]

Yes, I meant bags of holding. Also, the fast movement is to assure reaching enemies quickly with the bag. Even if a DM wouldn't allow, is it possible to make something similar, at least by the words on the paper?

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

I'd recommend emphasizing Hide and Move silently in order to sneak up on them, and use a Bag of Devouring instead of a Bag of Holding. The Bag of holding states it has enough air for 10 minutes, you'd actually be more successful with a mundane, greasy burlap sack in that case.

The bag of Devouring has a 90% chance of ignoring the first presence of flesh upon first intrusion (so a 10% chance of activating), than a 60% chance of activating after that. So, drop in a piece of meat, or a small mouse, or whathaveyou in the round before you sneak up, than get the bag over the opponent's head. 60% Chance of activating per round, you're likely to only need to keep the bag on the head for a few rounds.

Creating a character with a strong grapple check, ability to use Rope, or quality manacles might also be helpful.

subduing your opponent beforehand with drow-poisoned sleep arrows, sleep spells, stunning effects, anything that might incapacitate your opponent for a few rounds and could possibly be done at a distance might also be helpful.

The idea has merit. If I was your DM, I'd let you pull it off a time or three before something just so happened to coincidentally go wrong with your bag.

 

[xigbar]

I like that idea as well, RUMBLETiGER, and I'm considering that for a couple of separate builds, but the image in my head is of someone leaping, swinging at the opponent with some object or another, and the enemy dissappears instantaneously. I wouldn't mind making stealthy meat grinder though.

 

[El Mahdi]

There's also this critical aspect of Bags of Holding (from the D20 SRD here).

If the bag is overloaded, or if sharp objects pierce it (from inside or outside), the bag ruptures and is ruined. All contents are lost forever.

Don't know about you, but if I was the enemy with a bag pulled over my head, I'm going to try and do something about it. 10 minutes is a long time when your fighting for your life. If the enemy was completely inside it, I'm thinking whether they knew they were in a Bag of Holding or not, they're going to try and hack their way out. Sure, when they destroy the bag, they most likely disapear into some other plane (likely the Astral or Ethereal), but you've lost a fairly expensive magic item for the trade of one enemies life - not a good trade.

And a creative DM might decide to use that again later. The "enemy" that got sent off into some crazy dimension might come back as some kind of BBEG altered by the time and space he was lost in.

 

[xigbar]

Mahdi, that's the first problem I though of with the bag of holding scenario. From a DM perspective, I would probably rule that the trapped enemy would have to make some related knowledge check. After all, someone whose never heard of a bag of holding probably doesn't know how to get out of it, and it isn't stated that expanded dimension walls of it's insides look like a breakable fabric. Of course, any who make the check ruin my money, so you're right. As for the dimension door idea, I was thinking that it might send them down the appropriate distance in the direction of the weapon swing. In the case of straight down, any non-aerial combatants get sent right into the ground. Their might be a bit of difficulty specify the angle of a strike, but really, any where below ground, perhaps behind, so they pop up right next to me from the ground by the nearest unoccupied space rule.

 

[Greenfield]

The four biggest problems I see with the Bag of Devouring trick are:

1) You'd need complete surprise (not just a Flank) to pop it over someone, meaning it would have to be pretty much out of combat.
2) You'd need a Bag of Devouring, which can't be created and has no market price.
3) It only has a +6 on its Grapple, so it's not exactly an overpowering trick.
4) Presuming it works, the enemy is devoured and gone, including all their gear (pronounced "Tree-sure")

Ultimately, what you seem to be looking for is a "Zap, you're dead, no Save" type of attack, and people who try to introduce such things into a game often find themselves killed by exactly such an attack.

Oddly, while the various magical bags have internal dimensions defined, there isn't any listing for external size. Your Bag of Devouring might be the size of a dice bag, too small to slip over someone's head.

 

[Dandu]

Mahdi, that's the first problem I though of with the bag of holding scenario. From a DM perspective, I would probably rule that the trapped enemy would have to make some related knowledge check. After all, someone whose never heard of a bag of holding probably doesn't know how to get out of it, and it isn't stated that expanded dimension walls of it's insides look like a breakable fabric.

Given that the classes that would not be able to make the knowledge check are also the ones whose primary problem solving ability is bashing something until a desired outcome is achieved, I would not be surprised if a raging barbarian pops out of the bag the round after you trap him in it.

 

[kitcik]

I think we need the "whack-a-mole" PrC.

Essentially, you would get an ever-improving ability to wield a giant hammer that temporarily knocks opponents into another dimension, until they randomly pop back out.

This could actually work in a balanced way.