MtG the RPG

[kitcik]

How much MTG have you played? I think this thing needs some playtesting 'cuz there is no game more easily broken than MTG, not even D&D 3.5 (and that has pun-pun). And then you say that, rather than relying on a random draw from a deck, you can effectively look at the whole deck and decide what to cast? Bringing mechanics that are even more broken than 3.5 into the 3.5 universe seems like an odd way to start a game.

As I said, I am a huge fan of both games and would love to see them combined in some way, but I am skeptical as to this method of bringing in the mechanics.

Maybe you could post two character builds and describe how they might interact in a fight (with each other and also with a monster, assuming there are monsters beyond the summoned ones in this game)?

 

[MtGtheRPGDM]

How much MtG have I played? Up until 3 years ago I was a high level tournament player. Played in 2 world championship tournaments (type 1 hosted at GenCon Indy every year ) playing a modified version of the Long ProsBloom deck Went 8-4 in '03 and 9-3 in '04. In the Odyssy/Onslaught and Onslaught/Mirridon type 2 blocks won over 40 tournaments using Gabe Wall's RW Slide (Gabe and I are form the same home town of Kokomo Indiana) and up until Apocalype rotated out of Extended I had won over 25 tournaments black Black/Green Rock Control of my own design, in which I gave the Spiritmonger its new nickname at a PTQ of "The People's Champ" after living wishing for him off an amazing topdeck that won me the match and almost got me in the top 8. So I have played my fair share of MtG. Now with that out of the way lets clear up a misconception I do believe a great many people are having. In Magic if you have the money you have the card which you can place in your deck. In Mtg the RPG that isnt the case. You dont just get to pick and choose any of the THOUSANDS of cards that there is to build your spell book. There is a starting list of spells (which are from a core set precon of your chosen color) in which you get your starting spells. And after that you have to buy them. Now black lotus is indeed a powerful powerful card in Magic. But when it costs 130,000 gold to purchase one in MtG the RPG how many characters are going to get one? Or how many are going to get ONE at the cost of hundreds of hundreds of other spells that they had to forsake to save up the money?

 

[kitcik]

Well, let's try step 2.

How much D&D have you played?

Nah, never mind.

How about sharing the basic mechanics of the game if you want real feedback? It's like pulling teeth to get you to say you have to buy powerful spells (and that Black Lotus is a spell, although you could've saved that one).

Show a build. Show something.

Right now, as I said, it just seems like adding utterly broken mechanics to an already broken system.

Oh, and I won tournaments and was a judge before you started playing Magic so don't get all uppity with your People's Choice or whatever. It's also not a good way to promote / sell stuff. A better way might be to show people what you have created and how they can enjoy it. I'm just sayin.

 

[Dingo333]

Now black lotus is indeed a powerful powerful card in Magic. But when it costs 130,000 gold to purchase one in MtG the RPG how many characters are going to get one? Or how many are going to get ONE at the cost of hundreds of hundreds of other spells that they had to forsake to save up the money?

Answer: Anyone with the slightest idea how to play and a want to live (cause in magic turned RPG, losing a duel means death most likely, and if not death outright, you are incapacitated and can be killed at opponents discretion)

If I understand this right, I buy the "Spell" I can cast black lotus now
I get an amount of mana on my turn, lets say 3, and make it red
I use all but 2 of my "prepared spells" and drop as many black lotus as I can (lets say 7)
I cast Banefire with 1 mana and using 7 lotuses (21 damage as the cards go)
I cast fork to kill 2 opponents (or jump around blocks and what not)
in 3 spells, I win every match

Think of all the turn 1 win combos in legacy, with a restricted and banned list

Now remove the banned list, add all deck to hand, going first = win, even if you get 0 mana on your roll

Side Note: As a wizard, you gained new spells as you leveled up due to "Studies between adventures" using this, couldn't someone save up those studies to get even a game breaking card

Don't get me wrong, this sounds like an interesting idea, but some aspects of it have me worried is all

 

[MtGtheRPGDM]

Im not going to get into a whos played magic longer, or whos better. Because iv sat down and talked to and played with some of the best magic players who have ever played the game. Buddah, Finkle, Long. All of them have their faces ON magic cards. And all of them iv sat down and talked to at great length.

But the *&^%^ing contest aside this forum post was to announce the project, im posting things as I have time. Sure there hasnt been much but I have been doing my best to answer any questions that people have without giving away everything. This project is still in its somewhat early stages. Some of the rules are evolving on a daily basis. A lot of things are set in stone, but a few things are still changing based on feedback from my play testers. So im not going to post something here that isnt set in stone, have it change a bit down the road and then people be like "but on this topic you said X wtf" Here is what I can say. Artifacts do not function like normal spells. They are in fact objects that the mage will carry around with them. A mox for instance might be a necklace, the black lotus a ring. (What slot they will fill is still being worked out) But here are some things that are set in stone

There are 5 core classes. Red Mage, White Mage, Black Mage, Green Mage, and Blue Mage. At level one of each class it gives you 1 additional color of mana of its color (1 red for red, 1 blue for blue etc etc) Each color also has one of the 6 main stats associated with it that will determine a few factors. Wisdom is not used for any of them and is associated with the use and activation of artifacts. The number of spells one can cast in a given turn is based upon their available mana and 1/2 of their classes most important stat. Example a level 1 red mage's most important stat is dex. The red mage has a 18 Dex which is a +4 mod. Each turn he would have a maximum mana of 6 (1 for the level 4 for the mod rounded up to the nearest even number) he would be allowed to cast 2 spells in a given turn (4 dex mod halved) Now as he has 2 spells a turn he can use them to cast any combination of instants, sorceries, creatures or triggering an artifact. Spells may only be taken on YOUR initiative unless its an instant, and you may ONLY play instants outside of your initiative if it is in response to an opponent (or ally) casting a spell, triggering an artifact or ordering a creature to attack.

Example: Red Mage A has prepared a lightning bolt, the spell costs 1 red mana and does 3d4 damage to a creature or mage, and has 2 red mana in his mana pool. On his turn he does nothing. He does not summon, he does not cast the lightning bolt. Red Mage B (his opponent) begins his initative. He casts a raging goblin from his spell book. At this point Red mage A MAY cast his lightning bolt at the mage. He chooses not to. Since raging goblin has haste he is allowed to charge at red mage A. (creatures without haste cannot attack until their controllers next initiative) The goblin has 1d4 health and does 1d4 damage. Its BaB is that equal to its controller, its AC is 11. Red mage B orders the raging goblin to attack. Again Red mage A MAY play the lightning bolt from his spell book. He now chooses to do so. he rolls his 3d4, it deals enough damage to kill the raging goblin, the creature vanishes from the battle field. The lightning bolt goes to Red Mage's mana trail, and the Raging Goblin goes to Red Mage B's mana trail.

 

[MtGtheRPGDM]

Answer: Anyone with the slightest idea how to play and a want to live (cause in magic turned RPG, losing a duel means death most likely, and if not death outright, you are incapacitated and can be killed at opponents discretion)

If I understand this right, I buy the "Spell" I can cast black lotus now
I get an amount of mana on my turn, lets say 3, and make it red
I use all but 2 of my "prepared spells" and drop as many black lotus as I can (lets say 7)
I cast Banefire with 1 mana and using 7 lotuses (21 damage as the cards go)
I cast fork to kill 2 opponents (or jump around blocks and what not)
in 3 spells, I win every match

Think of all the turn 1 win combos in legacy, with a restricted and banned list

Now remove the banned list, add all deck to hand, going first = win, even if you get 0 mana on your roll

Side Note: As a wizard, you gained new spells as you leveled up due to "Studies between adventures" using this, couldn't someone save up those studies to get even a game breaking card

Don't get me wrong, this sounds like an interesting idea, but some aspects of it have me worried is all

The reason this would not work is simple. If you buy a black lotus you arent buying a black lotus spell. You are simply buying the artifact that you may use once per day (since once you use it you have exhausted its energy) Also you may only prepare a spell a maximum of 4 times in a day.

Example: you learn the lightning bolt spell after buying the scroll, you may now prepare that spell from 1-4 times, or you may not prepare it at all.

As I said somewhere near the beginning of this forum thread this is a HUGE undertaking, and I can understand that people are worried about how some things will work. But I ask that you please hold off passing judgement until you have seen the complete rules. I am trying to answer as many questions as I can, but people are making MASSIVE assumptions about rules they have not seen and are also assuming that neither myself or the 10man R&D/play test team that I'm working with are just over looking things.

 

[Dingo333]

Slivers are going to be powerful, but as with regular magic multicolor decks are going to be slow. Why? Lets say you are a red/black mage. During your mana phase you roll your D8 mana for the turn. You roll a 3. Since red is your primary you will only recieve 2 red mana and 1 black one. If you are a red/blue/black/green mage and you roll a 3 you will only get 1 red, 1 blue, and 1 black with no green. So while multi color mages will have access to more spells, their mana is going to be severly limited.

A few things I wanna get straight from this section

I play 5 color, and I roll less then 5, I get what color mana? how is it determined, the order you list them? In which case this has problems for any strategy

not the least of which is the pidgen holing of any deck that used more then 2 colors

But lets go with this

I have reached Level 5 as a green mage
I have an 18 on whatever stat green will be
I can have up to 10 mana and 2 spells per turn right?

So lets go and Cast Quick Sliver (2) and Fungus Sliver (4)

I still have 6 mana, I wait till their turn, and drop a Might Sliver (5) and a Virulent Sliver (1) (Quick sliver gave them flash)
My next turn, I drop a Reflex Sliver (4) and a Horned Sliver (3) and attack with all

I have 6 slivers at 3/3, 3/3, 4/4, 4/4, 4/4 and 4/4 all haste, trample, poisonous 1, and they get +1/+1 counters when they take damage

That is 22 power and 6 poison in a real magic game and the opponent is defeated

did I miss anything?

 

[MtGtheRPGDM]

A few things I wanna get straight from this section

I play 5 color, and I roll less then 5, I get what color mana? how is it determined, the order you list them? In which case this has problems for any strategy

not the least of which is the pidgen holing of any deck that used more then 2 colors

But lets go with this

I have reached Level 5 as a green mage
I have an 18 on whatever stat green will be
I can have up to 10 mana and 2 spells per turn right?

So lets go and Cast Quick Sliver (2) and Fungus Sliver (4)

I still have 6 mana, I wait till their turn, and drop a Might Sliver (5) and a Virulent Sliver (1) (Quick sliver gave them flash)
My next turn, I drop a Reflex Sliver (4) and a Horned Sliver (3) and attack with all

I have 5 slivers at 3/3, 3/3, 4/4, 4/4, and 4/4 all haste, trample, poisonous 1, and they get +1/+1 counters when they take damage

That is 18 power and 5 poison in a real magic game and the opponent is hanging by a thread

Their turn I cast gemhide and muscle and a fog (exhausting gemhide for muscle and muscle for the fog)

Next turn I overrun and win

did I miss anything?

Ok lets do this by the numbers

Yes you gain mana in the order in which you list them. is this a disadvantage absolutley, but just like in nomral magic you might not get the color mana you need right away (or in some cases at all, thats just the nature of chance) If you are playing 2 color or 3 you split the mana evenly, in the case you cannot your core color always gets the most.

Now with the slivers. You can ONLY cast 2 spells during 1 complete turn, thats from mana gen to mana gen. So if you cast 2 spells during YOUR turn, you cannot cast any spells on anyone elses turn. Instant or not. So you can ONLY cast 2 spells during any 1 initative round. Second of all, the quick sliver does indeed cost 2 mana (1 green and 1 colorless) but the fungus sliver costs 12 (3 green and 9 colorless) because the spell is rare. So you could not even cast the spell as you have a maximum of 10 mana.

Also have to think that mages will have more than 20 health. Level 1 is a 10+con mod and each level you get 1d10+con.

Also in your original example of the slivers if you HAD 10 mana (which means you had to roll a 10 on your d10) and you cast the quick, plus the fungus thats 6 mana you would only have had 4 left. But as stated, uncommon, rare and mythic rare cost more mana.

 

[Dingo333]

Second of all, the quick sliver does indeed cost 2 mana (1 green and 1 colorless) but the fungus sliver costs 12 (3 green and 9 colorless) because the spell is rare. So you could not even cast the spell as you have a maximum of 10 mana.

So, IF I have this right

Might sliver
Card 4G
D&D version 8GG

Uncommon = double mana cost
Rare = Triple
Mythic Rare = Quarduple?

So my Kazandu Blade Master Costs me 4 white mana to summon
My Goblin Guide Costs 3 Red mana
My Baneslayer Angel costs 12 colorless and 8 white

well good to know we will never see any multicolor cards of any rarity converted
(Fusion Elemental, Uncommon, Card: WUBRG, D&D: WWUUBBRRGG)

Also, the number of spells castable a turn,
in magic as many as you have the mana for
in this D&D: 1-3

Basing it off your ability mod is a good idea, problem is, no magic items or spells, absolute best you can have is 25 (max 3d6, +2 racial, +5 from level gain) meaning a mod of at most 7, cut in half, 3 spell per turn which wrecks combos, makes counterspelling (if it is even possible to begin with) near useless and ruins any card that counts cards played (and you would be surprised at how many there are)

 

[Dingo333]

Additional Thought

Also have to think that mages will have more than 20 health. Level 1 is a 10+con mod and each level you get 1d10+con.

First, 20 is your hitpoints in magic, why would it be less in this version?

Second: So in my example (assuming I can get it all down)

I have 6 slivers at 3/3, 3/3, 4/4, 4/4, 4/4 and 4/4
based on raging goblin this is 22d4
meaning up to 88 damage and at least 22
max HP at level 5, 70 (+4 from con and I am being generous here)

So I do need the overrun to win, but still