D&D 3E/3.5 3.5 Weapon question

[Jimlock]

This latest version of the rules, v.3.5, is compatible with 3rd edition D&D, but incorporates revisions and updates based on player feedback.

Your 3.0 rulebooks should work very well with any support product that is post-3.5, and vice versa.

Thanks Dandu! I had no idea!

For my next 3.5 wizard i'll consult my "Tome and Blood" for a PrC and feats.
It hasn't received an update so i bet it's ok! And i'm sure there won't be any conflicts with my 3.5 books cause after all, WotC says that 3.0 rulebooks should work very well with any support product that is post-3.5!

Thanks again!

EDiT: Sorry for highjacking the thread. I just had to express my gratitude!

 

[Dandu]

Actually, several things in Tome and Blood were updated. Not the entire book, though, which means that whatever was not revised should still be useable for your gaming pleasure.

I am glad I could help you clear up this matter. To further add to your enjoyment, may I suggest you open your Player's Handbook and turn to page four, where they state in a sidebar that 3.0 material is useable in 3.5 with minor adjustments?

 

[Jimlock]

Actually, several things in Tome and Blood were updated. Not the entire book, though, which means that whatever was not revised should still be useable for your gaming pleasure.

ohh....

that's sad... i guess i'll have to lose time figuring out the revised stuff...
but..but...didn't they say they should work very well????? .....anyway..

...ohh...and dear sage i have another question if i may?... what happens with feats in my 3.0 PHB? can i use those in my 3.5 game? did they get revised as well? say... improved critical?

 

[Dandu]

The Disciple of Dispater ability is an example of "specific trumps general", like where a character with Combat Reflexes gets to make attacks of opportunity when flat-footed because the feat states that he can do so. Or, perhaps more appropriately, how a Psychic Weapon Master can gain an additional +2 to the crit threat range of her chosen weapon.

 

[Jimlock]

Improved Critical never worked with Disciple of Dispater, which is why Disciple of Dispater builds use Keen weapons.

?

(3.0) BoVD, p60
Iron Power (Ex)
...This ability does not stack with the keen weapon quality, but it does stuck with the Improved Critical Feat.


It's been a pleasure watching you contradict yourself over and over again, just so as to prove to me that a donkey can fly..

...However I think that we should give it a rest for now.

In the meantime here's some food for thought.


3.0
Keen Edge
Transmutation Level: Brd 3, Sor/Wiz 3 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 action Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) Targets: One weapon or fifty projectiles,
all of which must be in contact with
each other at the time of casting Duration: 10 minutes/level Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless,
object) Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless, object)
This spell makes a weapon magically keen, improving its ability to deal telling blows. This transmutation doubles the threat
range of the weapon. A normal threat range becomes 19–20. A threat range of 19–20 becomes 17–20. A threat range of 18–20 becomes 15–20. The spell can be cast only on piercing or slashing weapons (and it does not stack with itself). If cast on arrows or crossbow bolts, the keen edge on a particular projectile ends after one use, whether or not the missile strikes its intended target.


SRD (3.5):
Keen Edge
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Targets: One weapon or fifty projectiles, all of which must be in contact with each other at the time of casting
Duration: 10 min./level
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless, object)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless, object)
This spell makes a weapon magically keen, improving its ability to deal telling blows. This transmutation doubles the threat range of the weapon. A threat range of 20 becomes 19-20, a threat range of 19-20 becomes 17-20, and a threat range of 18-20 becomes 15-20. The spell can be cast only on piercing or slashing weapons. If cast on arrows or crossbow bolts, the keen edge on a particular projectile ends after one use, whether or not the missile strikes its intended target. (Treat shuriken as arrows, rather than as thrown weapons, for the purpose of this spell.)

Multiple effects that increase a weapon’s threat range (such as the keen edge spell and the Improved Critical feat) don’t stack. You can’t cast this spell on a natural weapon, such as a claw.

3.0
IMPROVED CRITICAL [General]
Choose one type of weapon, such as longsword or greataxe. With that weapon, you know how to hit where it hurts.
Prerequisites: Proficient with weapon, base attack bonus +8 or higher.
Benefit: When using the weapon you selected, your threat range is doubled. For example, a longsword usually threatens a critical on a 19 or 20 (two numbers). If a character using a longsword has Improved Critical (longsword), the threat range becomes 17 through 20 (four numbers).
Note: “Keen” magic weapons also double their normal, nonmagical threat range. As with all doubled doublings, the result is triple. A magic longsword with a doubled threat range in the hands of a character with Improved Critical (longsword) would have a threat range of 15 through 20 (six numbers: 2 for being a longsword, +2 for being doubled once and +2 for being doubled a second time).
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. The effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new weapon.


SRD (3.5):
Improved Critical [General]
Choose one type of weapon.

Prerequisite
Proficient with weapon, base attack bonus +8.

Benefit
When using the weapon you selected, your threat range is doubled.

Special
You can gain Improved Critical multiple times. The effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new type of weapon.

This effect doesn’t stack with any other effect that expands the threat range of a weapon.

A fighter may select Improved Critical as one of his fighter bonus feats.

 

[Dandu]

You have fallen for my trap card. In America.

(Look above your post to see what I was doing while you were distracted by a wild goose chase. I'll wait.)

 

[anest1s]

You two are getting predictable

First of all, in BoVD the discipline prestige gives a triple treat area, stacking with improved critical and not with keen. Clearly, they intended it to work that way, even if it is 3.0 and not 3.5.


Other than that, that ''unlimited attack chain'' isn't so ''unlimited''.
Supposing that you get an extra attack for every threat,
The possibility to get an extra attack x times would be
1:60%
2:36%
3:21%
4:13%
5:7%
6:4%
7:2%

So most of the times it wouldn't go that far.

Also, in p140 of the PH it says that if you have an increased crit range, a roll within that increased range it is not an automatic hit unless it is a 20. And that if it won't hit, it wont be a threat. So the chain will probably stop earlier.

So against a low AC the 9-20 range may give you an easy kill if you are lucky, but against higher AC its pretty much the same as a normal crit range would be.

 

[Jimlock]

Or, perhaps more appropriately, how a Psychic Weapon Master can gain an additional +2 to the crit threat range of her chosen weapon.

You are a big kid... do the math.

BoVD = 3.0 + 2002

PHB = 3.5 + 2003

Psychic Weapon Master = 3.5 + 2004

 

[Dandu]

But Psychic Weapon Master states that it improves the threat range of a weapon that Improved Critical is applied to! How is this even possible if Improved Critical states that it does not stack with anything?

Now, it has been a pleasure watching dispute the rules with such spirit, but unfortunately vigor has never been a match for correctness, so I'll sum up everything and leave you something to chew on.

1. 3.0 material that was updated to 3.5 uses the 3.5 version. (Obviously.)
2. 3.0 material that was not updated can still be used, with minor adjustments. (See: PHB p. 4, both articles I cited earlier.)
3. Specific trumps general. (See: Psychic Weapons Master's expanded crit range ability, Combat Reflexes and attacks of opportunity.)
4. The fact that Disciple of Dispate states that it can increase the crit range of a weapon, stacking with Improved Critical, works even though normally nothing can stack with Improved Critical.

 

[anest1s]

I find it funny that the triple range gets all the hate, while that lighting mace thing is like ''ok''