Rules/Rolls for Running a Shop

[Theo R Cwithin]

isnt that from mt zogonia...the evil druidess using the ooze to bathe...

Oooh! Evil druidess in an ooze bath! Mmmm, sexy.
I'm not familiar with Mt.Zogonia, but I'm sure the ooze bath idea's been done before; it seems kind of obvious to me, especially in this day and age of Purell and body wash! I can think think of all kinds of applications for oozes (of varying degrees of dangerousness) in day-to-day life, industry, religion, and the like.

 

[lordxaviar]

Oooh! Evil druidess in an ooze bath! Mmmm, sexy.
I'm not familiar with Mt.Zogonia, but I'm sure the ooze bath idea's been done before; it seems kind of obvious to me, especially in this day and age of Purell and body wash! I can think think of all kinds of applications for oozes (of varying degrees of dangerousness) in day-to-day life, industry, religion, and the like.

from dragon magazine... she walked around talking to a potted mushroom that spoke back... great strip.

 

[Theo R Cwithin]

from dragon magazine... she walked around talking to a potted mushroom that spoke back... great strip.

Awesome! Ooze baths? Talking mushrooms? How could that not be a great strip??

There's so much I missed by not reading the old magazines.

 

[lordxaviar]

it had a site for a month or so and then vanished.... you can get a torrent of all the old dragons..

 

[nijineko]

in response to your comments, i've always handled it via rp. i recall one time that our characters were tasked with guarding a merchant caravan on a risky route. sure enough we were attacked numerous times. my character has several notable traits, one of which is hating wastefulness. so she would loot the corpses of the dead enemies of anything usable and practical. she wound up with a collection of armor, weapons, and clothes, and sundries... the rest of the party didn't like the idea, and she wound up having to give the merchants her salary back in trade for space on their wagons to store her loot!! in the end she sold it or traded it to outposts that needed replacement arms and armor and weren't too picky about where it came from... the royal supply was long in coming! she made more money during the trip than anyone else.

this was worked out via some dialogue between myself and the dm, with some rolls to see how good a job i did selling. between the two, the dm decided the value i'd won. frequently, we'd trade for things we wanted, even if not equivalent value. and sometimes we'd give things away for the rp connection / favor that would result from the generosity. we've paid for an expert to take his architect guild exam (guess who's going to build our place once we settle down?), we've freed dwarven prisoners and a few human merchant prisoners and fed and clothed, armed and armored them so they could safely make it back home, and won their goodwill in the bargin. (guess who makes our weapons and armor now? and guess from whom we buy oddities and sundries?) the dm includes a mild discount for anything we purchase through our contacts. we have less cargo, we have less on-hand treasure, we have future contacts, and we have small discounts that remind us of our heroic deeds on a continual basis.

all in all, both the dm and us players feel we are winning. =D

 

[Jacob]

Finally found another thread that speaks my mind on this, though it's in another forum (not that it's a bad thing, but as it goes). The topic starter really go to me, because he got it right: if you sell an item you crafted to a merchant, you actually lose money/XP. Sadly, there wasn't much else present on how to be a merchant, other than create incredibly complex mechanics for something which shouldn't be that complex. I think.

On having the goods being sold via RP, I find that to be a waste of time. I'm pretty hard set on selling the goods at 100%, and the constant hagglers would grind the game to a halt (have a good feeling the DM may do this via past experiences). I feel it would help the game along if it simply worked out it's own and we wouldn't have to waste anyone's time on this one detail of the game.

Besides that, he told me I would receive 75% GP value of an item at max through the RP he has in mind, and I'm not looking for that. It's also based on what he feels we should have, adding yet another level of control besides what treasure we get from the enemies we face. I'd much rather have a selling system built around something he or I can't control, and is lead entirely by chance (dice if you will).

And no, we still don't have a solution to this issue in the game. What really bothers me is how I would immediately go with the idea I presented in my own game should anyone want to give it a try, yet no one's jumped on the prospect yet. Yes, DM preference and all, but all the same.

 

[lordxaviar]

The topic starter really go to me, because he got it right: if you sell an item you crafted to a merchant, you actually lose money/XP.

I dont agree because it shouldnt cost you the value of the finished item to craft it..

the only thing that comes to mind is in the real world...when crafting...if you want to earn a specific hourly wage for crafting...which would make any product outrageous in price.

 

[Jacob]

I dont agree because it shouldnt cost you the value of the finished item to craft it..

the only thing that comes to mind is in the real world...when crafting...if you want to earn a specific hourly wage for crafting...which would make any product outrageous in price.

To note, the topic starter was actually referring to items he was making, and selling those at half price to a merchant would lose him money. You can refer to the Crafting and Magic Item creation pages for reference, but a quick summary to explain...

To make a simple Longsword, I need to put in 5 GP, and should I roll 20 on my craft check consistently, it will be done in about 3.5 days, where upon I can sell it for 15 and get 2/3 a profit. If I wanted to make it Masterwork, that's a total of 105 GP, and with the same rolls it will be done in in about 1 week and 5.83 days (I love fractions!) and sold for 315 GP. A +1 Longsword brings on the Magic Item rules. Start with a Masterwork Longsword, spend one day with it at the cost of 1067 GP and 85 XP, whereafter I can sell it for 2315 GP, getting a profit of 718 GP (if I made the sword as well). And during all this crafting I can roll Profession checks to make another form of profit. 8 hours Crafting, 8 hours Profession, and 8 hours of rest. The life of a businessmen is complete. And as a hobby, I slay beholders for the king.

*ahem* In both of these scenarios, I'm losing money if I sell my goods at 50%. Okay, just the Magic crafting, because no XP is being expended in basic crafting. Every 1 XP is worth 5 GP, and the expenses of the +1 Longsword even without making the word myself would be 1492 GP, and selling a +1 Longsword for even 50% given me a profit of -334.5 GP. Sure, the profit is 244.25 GP if bumped to 75%, but that's a number that really doesn't sit well with me. I should not only be able to find a buyer for my creation at 100%, but be able to sell all this loot I found at a dragon's nest which I risked my life for. If I have my own shop, shouldn't I be able to earn the full profit from the wealth I accumulated?

 

[Elephant]

I think this entire issue can be boiled down to two questions:

1. Do you trust your DM to manage the wealth level so it doesn't ruin the fun?
2. Would you rather play a game about running a magic shop or about exploring strange dungeons? Sure, you can incorporate both, but if the DM doesn't think the shop is any fun, he won't want to deal with it.

 

[Jacob]

I think this entire issue can be boiled down to two questions:

1. Do you trust your DM to manage the wealth level so it doesn't ruin the fun?
2. Would you rather play a game about running a magic shop or about exploring strange dungeons? Sure, you can incorporate both, but if the DM doesn't think the shop is any fun, he won't want to deal with it.

1. Short answer, no.

Long answer, it has been pointed out constantly we are far below the average PC wealth as defined by the DMG for 7th/8th Level PCs. Not only that, but the most expensive items we ever got were a pair of swords, one +1 Frost the other Flaming. We had it shipped back to the shop so it could be sold, or at the very least put on display so it could bring in a crowd, because it was possible they could be weapons of a legendary dragon slayer.

However when we returned to the shop, we discovered a powerful assassin buying the swords. Sure, he bought them at full price, so no problem there, except they were sold to cover debt the shop supposedly incurred while away, leaving a profit of 4000 GP (a debt number decided upon before even figuring out how my shop would work). Keep in mind other items were sold while we were gone as well, including four Rings of Protection +1, four +1 weapons, and many other items.

So on top of trying to figure out what to do with the shop so we can actually get some wealth, we have no wealth to work with throughout the entire time. The DM also "sold" our treasure with not even an 1/8 of a return, including the most powerful weapons we've ever come across to an Assassin who is now even more powerful because of it. So no, I don't think he can handle the wealth level to make it fun for us, because he doesn't give us anything to begin with.

2. I'm a little appalled by this question, but I'll answer as best I can. Making and running a magic shop is a goal of my PC, one which he will not stray from. He has pride for his craft and his people, whom he seeks to elevate through this task. As a Player in his game, the DM should find a means to facilitate this goal I seek, regardless if he doesn't think it's fun or worthwhile.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not obsessing and focusing just on the shop in regards to the game/campaign/what have you. It is merely the focus of discussion on this thread, and a hurdle that after two months has still not been resolved. I want to get back into adventuring, discovering mysteries and shaking the foundations of the earth, which I think/hope the DM wants to do. This shop? This is a thing in the game, which I hope will supplement the future gaming we do. But we are stuck until that can actually be figured out.