5E on the horizon?

[Maggan]

From reading this discussion re. Pathfinder versus 4e I get a sense that my part of the world must be a total freak show.

When 4e came out, all D&D gamers I know gave it a try. Most gave it a year or so to play it thoroughly. Also a not insignificant percentage of the "Anti-D&D" crowd in Swedish gaming adopted D&D4e, and loved it.

When Pathfinder came out, people started running that as well as D&D4. Taking turns as it were. Just like we do with other games, like Call of Cthulhu, WFRP, you name it.

And that's where it stands for me, and most of the D&D players I know. We run both games. And a lot of others as well. No huge rift here.

Like I said, when comparing my reality to the reality of the huge divide in the US, I just get a huge disconnect. I guess it's all down to anecdotal observations and all that.

/M

 

[Dice4Hire]

As far as I am concerned, Dungeon Crawl Classics by Goodman Games is going to be 5E.

Dungeon Crawl Classics

No, it is going to be DCC.

 

[Lanefan]

I wasn't suggesting that rational thought was capable of explaining everything. Merely that some people ought to give it a try sometime.

Really, though, rational thought's pretty great at explaining nearly everything.

Rational thought led me to the conclusions I've reached, and to the prediction I made last fall and have stuck with since: that 5e breaks at this year's GenCon. I'll be proven right or wrong within 2 months. If right, I'll be there on site to see it. If wrong, c'est la vie.

If you predict it's going to rain tomorrow every single day, you will eventually be right. It doesn't mean you can predict the weather.

Of course. But if you don't predict rain except on those occasions when it makes sense, and in fact it does rain when you predict it will, then what?

Lan-"rational thought explains what irrational thought invents"-efan

 

[Lanefan]

Considering that as I look on the front page of En World, a site that has grown by about 30% since the release of 4e, I see that the 4e boards are about 10 times the size of the Pathfinder boards. On a site where you'd think that the "fracture" would be very visible, you'd think that there'd be a bit more chatter on the Pathfinder boards.

All of the "evidence" of the fracture pretty much only exists in the minds of those that want there to be this massive split. I have no idea why people insist there is this massive split when there is almost no evidence to support it. I blame Lanefan.*

If you're going to blame me for something, at least allow me the pleasure of doing it first!

I've no real horse in the 4e-Pathfinder race. I am, however, still riding the 1e horse in the 1e-3e divide.

Lan-"being blamed for what I didn't do gives a nice smokescreen so I can get away with what I did do"-efan

 

[Shadeydm]

Lan-"being blamed for what I didn't do gives a nice smokescreen so I can get away with what I did do"-efan

What did you do? Were you one of the looters after the Canucks lost to the Bruins????

 

[amerigoV]

5E? It won't be out for many years. It has been five long years since WotC promised us this awesome RPG and it hasn't hit the shelves yet.

[sblock]

[/sblock]

If you cannot wait, someone has already Savaged It.

 

[Lanefan]

What did you do? Were you one of the looters after the Canucks lost to the Bruins????

Not guilty - I wasn't even in Vancouver at the time, just sitting at home in Victoria morose in front of my TV.

Lan-"the best part of game 7 was Gary Bettman getting booed out of the building"-efan

 

[Hussar]

So, you're claiming there is not a massive divide in the player base, Hussar (or that we can't know whether or not there is?)?

Really?

To be exact, I'm claiming that we cannot know how large the divide is. That there is a divide is self-evident. But, then again, there was a divide LONG before 4e came on the scene. How much has 4e exacerbated that divide? I have no idea.

I mean, there's our own experiences, but there's a lot more info to draw upon than just that.

Where? I keep seeing claims of all this information and evidence, but, no actual examples seem to be forthcoming.

Heck, the continued existence of Pathfinder ALONE shows that there's a massive number of players who didn't switch to 4e.


Whether or not 4e was "as big a success as they hoped" we'll never know, though...that I agree with. There's not really a way to know their projected hopes.

Looking at the Paizo boards, I see that the Pathfinder forums there have about 15 000 threads. On their own boards, they have about the same number of threads that 4e has here and this is hardly a 4e fansite. Looking at the total posts, the 4e boards here still have about 100 000 more posts than Pathfinder does on its own boards.

Are there lots of people playing Pathfinder? Yup. FAN-Lanefan-TASTIC. That's great. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. But, the presumption that all 4e players and all Pathfinder players are distinct from each other is not based on any sort of facts. There's a unknown sized body of gamers who play both and an unknown sized body of gamers that play one or the other. Until we can make any sort of educated guesses as to the size of any of those three groups, then how can we possibly say that Pathfinder is evidence of a split?

It certainly could be. I won't deny that for a second. But, without any other information to go on, it's just chicken entrails.

Turn it around. The continued existence of OSRIC alone shows that players didn't switch to 3e. Does that mean that there was a massive divide in the player base with retro-clones and the like? Does Mutants and Masterminds mean that 3e wasn't as successful as it could have been?

Just because there are other games on the market does not really mean anything.

 

[Lanefan]

There's a unknown sized body of gamers who play both and an unknown sized body of gamers that play one or the other.

And an unknown sized body of gamers who play neither, but who still play D+D.

Until we can make any sort of educated guesses as to the size of any of those three groups, then how can we possibly say that Pathfinder is evidence of a split?

Turn it around. The continued existence of OSRIC alone shows that players didn't switch to 3e.

Seeing as OSRIC came out several years after 3e, I'd say it means players did switch to (or started with) 3e and then switched away.

Does that mean that there was a massive divide in the player base with retro-clones and the like? Does Mutants and Masterminds mean that 3e wasn't as successful as it could have been?

Just because there are other games on the market does not really mean anything.

I think the difference this time is how well PF is doing in relation to 4e vs. how well (game x) did in relation to 3e, or 2e, or 1e, or whatever D+D was current at the time; in that no "game x" has ever come close to what PF is doing now.

Also, this is the first time a game that is a direct evolution of the immediately-previous D+D edition has been released to go head-to-head with the current D+D edition.

Lan-"these waters are uncharted - here be dragons"-efan

 

[BryonD]

Where? I keep seeing claims of all this information and evidence, but, no actual examples seem to be forthcoming.

Ha.
I see my absence has not missed any evolution in the return to go, do not collect $200, forgot everything that ever happened and claim all debates must be reset at zero tactic of Hussar.

Looking at the Paizo boards, I see that the Pathfinder forums there have about 15 000 threads. On their own boards, they have about the same number of threads that 4e has here and this is hardly a 4e fansite. Looking at the total posts, the 4e boards here still have about 100 000 more posts than Pathfinder does on its own boards.

Ha.
The king of "that isn't data" is pointing a thread counts. Cute

Until we can make any sort of educated guesses as to the size of any of those three groups, then how can we possibly say that Pathfinder is evidence of a split?

I can make educated guesses. So we got that covered. Yes, you can stick your fingers in your ears, again, again, again. That is fine.

I also know a guy who doesn't belive we landed on the moon and nothing changes his mind either.

Ladies and Gents, this post is laden with what we often call, "getting personal," or ad hominem argument. This is rhetorically weak, and pretty rude, and can get you booted from a thread - like it did here. Try not to do this. Thanks. ~Umbran