Converting Planescape monsters

[Cleon]

Like I said, I'm not fussed about SR +9 or whatever, but I just don't understand where the 11th level caster comes from.

Oh, in AD&D a creature's Magic Resistance is the percentage chance to resist an 11th level caster.

So are we going for CR +9 for the Spell Resistance?

 

[freyar]

How did the level come in, via some kind of table like turning? Huh.

 

[Cleon]

How did the level come in, via some kind of table like turning? Huh.

No, it didn't involve a table. The AD&D Monster Manual(s) had a description of how it worked in the notes as to how to read the monster entry. For illustrative purposes, here's the version from the original Monster Manual:

MAGIC RESISTANCE indicates the percentage chance of any spell absolutely failing in the monster’s presence. It is based on the spell being cast by a magic-user of 11th level, and it must be adjusted upwards by 5% for each level below 11th or downwards for each level above 11th of the magic-user casting the spell. Thus a magic resistance of 95% means that a 10th level magic-user has no possibility of affecting the monster with a spell, while a 12th level magic-user has a 10% chance. Even if a spell does take effect on a magic-resistant creature, the creature is entitled to normal saving throws. Note also that the magic resistance of a creature has an effect on certain existing spells such as hold portal, where it indicates the probability of the magic resistance shattering the existing spell.

I don't know for sure, but I'd hazard a guess the base level was set to 11th level because that was an AD&D Magic-User class's "name level", when they earned the title of "Wizard" and could establish a base for themselves.

 

[freyar]

Uggh, nothing about level-appropriate challenges there. So a 2HD critter with 25% magic resistance is nearly untouchable by a 1st or 2nd level wizard. Mean. I think this means we're going to have to fudge around with SR a lot more in these conversions. I guess you've mentioned this before, though.

 

[Cleon]

Uggh, nothing about level-appropriate challenges there. So a 2HD critter with 25% magic resistance is nearly untouchable by a 1st or 2nd level wizard. Mean. I think this means we're going to have to fudge around with SR a lot more in these conversions. I guess you've mentioned this before, though.

Well, a 1st-2nd level wizard would have a 70-75% failure rate against a 25% MR, so they'd be advised to throw a few flaming oil flasks or sic their martial allies on the critter.

Anyhow, the assumptions of the game were a bit different back then. A 1st or 2nd level wizard wasn't very likely to meet a creature with Magic Resistance. There weren't that many of them at low level - imps, quasits, pseudodragons and some fey were the usual suspects, and I believe that even those were more commonly met at mid levels.

And yes, I think we've had this conversation about SR conversion before.

I guess we could go a bit lower than CR +9 if you think it's too mean. A 25% MR isn't that special, being at the lower end of the range. In AD&D Imps & Quasits were both 25% MR, Bearded Devils (Barbazu) had 30% and Pseudodragons had 35% MR.

Let's see, In 3E Imps and Quasits don't even have Spell Resistance, barbazu have SR 17 and Pseudodragons 19. That suggests we should be aiming for somewhere about SR 15-16 for a typical Warden Beast (say, one based on a lion, ape or tiger).

That fits pretty well with a Spell Resistance equal to CR +9.

 

[freyar]

I have no problems with SR = CR +9.

 

[Shade]

Most outsiders have CR+8 (demons), CR+11 (the bulk of 'em) or CR+12 (devils). That said...

I have no problems with SR = CR +9.

...Nor I.

 

[Cleon]

Most outsiders have CR+8 (demons), CR+11 (the bulk of 'em) or CR+12 (devils). That said...

...Nor I.

CR +9 it is then!

Updated Working Draft.

Is that it for the template?

Ready to start on the sample creature?

The current proposal for the base creature is a Tiger.

 

[freyar]

Tigers feel over-exposed. I feel like using a bison. Or a cheetah if you want a large cat.

The template does look done, though "call of the beastlands" and "ecosense" should be in italics, not bold.

 

[Shade]

Bison sounds good!