Converting "generic setting" Second Edition monsters

[Shade]

I'd be OK with that, although if the elementals can control the fire phantom they ought to rebuke the phantoms rather than turn them.

Hmm, if Fire Elementals rebuke them, should we have Water Elementals turn them?

That all makes sense.

Also, why the level check mechanic? Couldn't we simply use the command mechanic (greater version of rebuke) to control them?

 

[Cleon]

That all makes sense.

Also, why the level check mechanic? Couldn't we simply use the command mechanic (greater version of rebuke) to control them?

Because the source material said "Any more powerful creature from the Elemental Plane of Fire can dismiss the fire phantom at will, or even turn it upon its summoner", emphasis mine.

 

[Shade]

Because the source material said "Any more powerful creature from the Elemental Plane of Fire can dismiss the fire phantom at will, or even turn it upon its summoner", emphasis mine.

I'm not reading that as "more powerful than the caster", but rather "more powerful than the fire phantom." Any creature with enough HD to be able to pull off a Command is going to be more powerful than the fire phantom.

 

[freyar]

That's fine with me. I'll also change turning to rebuking. Not so sure about the water elementals, though. Also, the original "turning" was banishment back to the plane of fire. Want to drop that for the sake of unified mechanics?

Subservient to Fire (Ex?): A fire phantom is so tied to the plane of fire, that it can be controlled by other elementals of the fire subtype, as long as those elementals have more HD than the fire phantom. The other elemental may rebuke or command the fire phantom as a cleric of its hit dice; the fire phantom resists as an undead with +2 turn resistance.

 

[Shade]

That's fine with me. I'll also change turning to rebuking. Not so sure about the water elementals, though. Also, the original "turning" was banishment back to the plane of fire. Want to drop that for the sake of unified mechanics?

Subservient to Fire (Ex?): A fire phantom is so tied to the plane of fire, that it can be controlled by other elementals of the fire subtype, as long as those elementals have more HD than the fire phantom. The other elemental may rebuke or command the fire phantom as a cleric of its hit dice; the fire phantom resists as an undead with +2 turn resistance.

I'm satisfied with this current incarnation.

 

[Cleon]

That's fine with me. I'll also change turning to rebuking. Not so sure about the water elementals, though. Also, the original "turning" was banishment back to the plane of fire. Want to drop that for the sake of unified mechanics?

Subservient to Fire (Ex?): A fire phantom is so tied to the plane of fire, that it can be controlled by other elementals of the fire subtype, as long as those elementals have more HD than the fire phantom. The other elemental may rebuke or command the fire phantom as a cleric of its hit dice; the fire phantom resists as an undead with +2 turn resistance.

Yes, we'd have to use a lovely exception-based approach to match the original's "banish or command" approach.

Hmm, maybe Fire Phantoms have an inherent ability to return to the Elemental Plane of Fire, and when if they flee when "turned" on the Prime Material they run away back home?

 

[Cleon]

I'm satisfied with this current incarnation.

I'm not so sure. I'm thinking we should consider a hybrid turn and command approach. Oh, and I guess it ought to be (Su).

Subservient to Fire (Su): A fire phantom is so tied to the plane of fire, that it can be banished, rebuked or controlled by other elementals of the fire subtype, provided those elementals have more HD than the fire phantom. The other elemental may rebuke or command the fire phantom as a cleric of its hit dice; the fire phantom resists as an undead with +2 turn resistance. If a fire elemental rebukes a fire phantom outside its native plane, the fire phantom is banished home to the Elemental Plane of Fire.

 

[freyar]

That addition would work for me, too.

 

[Cleon]

That addition would work for me, too.

Shall we use it, then?

Might as well put everything we've got so far together into a Working Draft...

 

[Cleon]

Fire Phantom Working Draft

Fire Phantom
Medium Elemental (Fire, Extraplanar)
Hit Dice: 2d8+2 (11 hp)
Initiative: +7
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 15 (+3 Dex, +2 natural), touch 13, flat-footed 12
Base Attack/Grapple: +1/+1
Attack: Slam +3 melee (1d8 plus 1d4 fire)
Full Attack: Slam +3 melee (1d8 plus 1d4 fire)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Burn
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., elemental traits, immunity to fire, subservient to fire, vulnerability to cold
Saves: Fort +1, Ref +6, Will +0
Abilities: Str 11, Dex 17, Con 12, Int 6, Wis 11, Cha 11
Skills: Listen +2, Spot +3
Feats: Combat Reflexes, Improved Initiative (B), Weapon Finesse (B)
Environment: Elemental Plane of Fire
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 1
Treasure: None
Alignment: Usually neutral
Advancement: —
Level Adjustment: —

A vaguely humanoid figure formed out of flames.

Fire phantoms are among the weakest of the elemental creatures on the Elemental Plane of Fire. They obey or flee from more powerful fire elementals. Fire phantoms can be summoned to the material plane using the spell fire phantom, but more powerful fire elementals can easily dismiss a summoned fire phantom back to its native plane due to their subservience to flame creatures.

A fire phantom is 7 feet tall and weighs about 2 pounds.

Fire phantoms speak Ignan.

COMBAT

Fire phantoms are unsophisticated combatants, they close with their opponents as quickly as possible and attack with blows of their flaming limbs.

Burn (Ex): A fire phantom's slam attack deals bludgeoning damage plus fire damage from the phantom's flaming body. Those hit by a fire phantom's slam attack also must succeed on a DC 12 Reflex save or catch on fire. The flame burns for 1d4 rounds. A burning creature can take a move action to put out the flame. The save DC is Constitution-based.

Creatures hitting a fire phantom with natural weapons or unarmed attacks take fire damage as though hit by the phantom's attack, and also catch on fire unless they succeed on a Reflex save.

Subservient to Fire (Su): A fire phantom is so tied to the plane of fire, that it can be banished, rebuked or controlled by other elementals of the fire subtype, provided those elementals have more HD than the fire phantom. The other elemental may rebuke or command the fire phantom as a cleric of its hit dice; the fire phantom resists as an undead with +2 turn resistance. If a fire elemental rebukes a fire phantom outside its native plane, the fire phantom is banished home to the Elemental Plane of Fire.