4th edition: Not happy with the new direction.

[delericho]

I really don't even know where to start when I try and get someone new to start playing D&D.

For a new player, the best place to start them really is Essentials. After that, once they've got a bit of a handle on the system, you can introduce them to the "full experience" of either 4e Classic or DDI.

(I actually quite like Essentials, in format at least. If I were ever to DM 4e again, it would be Essentials-only. But then, that's never happening, so it's a moot point.)

I'm ready for a complete reboot of the game and there are several things I want in that new direction.

See, for me, Star Wars Saga Edition was so close to what I wanted out of the new edition...

What i think would be a good idea would to have classes as an option for D&D.

Gah, no!

"No classes" = "Not D&D", at least IMO. And classes as an option (except in a very optional sourcebook) counts as "no classes" to me.

 

[Neonchameleon]

ForeverSlayer,

With all due respect you've made 113 comments. In that time you've opened a lot of threads saying how you don't like 4e and don't like Essentials. And how you want 4e to be classless. You are opening them in the 4th edition forum and then complaining that you are disagreed with. And the way you are opening them and your supposed like of 4e reminds me of letters starting "As a lifelong Democrat, I must object to their latest policy..."

If your preferances are what you claim they are I have a simple suggestion for you: Try GURPS. It is classless. Magic has its own mechanics - as do psionics. It's flexible. It seems to be much more of what you want out of a RPG. And if GURPS fails, try Savage Worlds.

 

[D'karr]

Guys, can I ask as a favour, one gamer to another, one forum poster to another, one internet dude to another... please, PLEASE can we keep ENW clear of "cool story bro" and "ibtl". I'm begging you.

Sure thing. That's a cool request bro.

 

[ForeverSlayer]

ForeverSlayer,

With all due respect you've made 113 comments. In that time you've opened a lot of threads saying how you don't like 4e and don't like Essentials. And how you want 4e to be classless. You are opening them in the 4th edition forum and then complaining that you are disagreed with. And the way you are opening them and your supposed like of 4e reminds me of letters starting "As a lifelong Democrat, I must object to their latest policy..."

If your preferances are what you claim they are I have a simple suggestion for you: Try GURPS. It is classless. Magic has its own mechanics - as do psionics. It's flexible. It seems to be much more of what you want out of a RPG. And if GURPS fails, try Savage Worlds.

I have played many RPG's out there. I have played about 26 years worth of RPG's but as a paying Wizards customer there is a certain way that I want D&D. The current model just isn't doing what people thought it would. You may like 4th edition and thats good and all but telling someone to go and play another game is not the way to go I'm afraid.

The signs tell me that something different is coming very soon and I'm anxious to see just what it is.

 

[ForeverSlayer]

See, for me, Star Wars Saga Edition was so close to what I wanted out of the new edition...

I heard that Star Wars Saga was what 4th edition should have been. I also head that the system is very good.

 

[catastrophic]

I haven't agreed with much of anything you've said until this. I think the 4E designers understand this too, which is why the Essentials Martial classes have moved away from AEDU, which is what predominantly makes Martial classes feel like Arcane/Divine classes.

Rubbish.

The original 4e martial classes felt nothing like divine or arcane classes, and the essential's martial classes were a farce.

If anything, the original 4e martial classes were vastly more characterful than the inert, trap laden garbage of prevous editions, and perfectly fit the flavour of the martial power source.

If wotc continues down the path they took with the essentials martial classes, contnuing to sabotage popular archetypes to pander to people who no longer buy their books, they'll alienate the people who actually buy their books.

 

[herrozerro]

I have played many RPG's out there. I have played about 26 years worth of RPG's but as a paying Wizards customer there is a certain way that I want D&D. The current model just isn't doing what people thought it would. You may like 4th edition and thats good and all but telling someone to go and play another game is not the way to go I'm afraid.

The signs tell me that something different is coming very soon and I'm anxious to see just what it is.

Why not? I mean if someone is describing their perfect game and it is indeed something else why not tell that person to play that other game?

If someone complains to me that minesweeper doesn't have enough card playing in it i'll redirect them to hearts or solitaire.

 

[ForeverSlayer]

ForeverSlayer,

With all due respect you've made 113 comments. In that time you've opened a lot of threads saying how you don't like 4e and don't like Essentials. And how you want 4e to be classless. You are opening them in the 4th edition forum and then complaining that you are disagreed with. And the way you are opening them and your supposed like of 4e reminds me of letters starting "As a lifelong Democrat, I must object to their latest policy..."

You do understand that this is a 4th edition discussion forum and not a all hail 4th edition forum?

This is a place that is open to all aspects of 4th edition discussion whether it be positive or negative. Also, I have no problem with people disagreeing with me, it's certain people that come in here and try to derail the thread, dismiss what others say when they don't agree with them, undermine people, and try and discredit everyone. It's not rocket science my friend, if you don't like the attitude of the thread then just walk away. I'm fairly certain some people actually know what a forum is and how it works.

I have paid Wizards plenty of money for 4th edition books and if there are aspects of the game that I don't like then I will present them. If you agree or disagree is okay but don't come in here trying to make everyone who agrees with me sound like an idiot(not you, just the usual trouble makers in general).

 

[herrozerro]

I have paid Wizards plenty of money for 4th edition books and if there are aspects of the game that I don't like then I will present them. If you agree or disagree is okay but don't come in here trying to make everyone who agrees with me sound like an idiot(not you, just the usual trouble makers in general).

Could you present something to talk about then? I mean besides the tired old "It all looks the same" argument. perhaps you have started some duscussion but all i have seen is "I hope 5e is different".

 

[ForeverSlayer]

Rubbish.

The original 4e martial classes felt nothing like divine or arcane classes, and the essential's martial classes were a farce.

If anything, the original 4e martial classes were vastly more characterful than the inert, trap laden garbage of prevous editions, and perfectly fit the flavour of the martial power source.

If wotc continues down the path they took with the essentials martial classes, contnuing to sabotage popular archetypes to pander to people who no longer buy their books, they'll alienate the people who actually buy their books.

Problem is there are likely more people who don't buy the books than actually buy the books and that is a problem in my opinion. Essentials hasn't done very well overall and something needs to be done.