D&D 4E AGoT with 4e?

[MacMathan]

I am looking into getting an A Game of Thrones based 4e game off the ground and I was hoping for some ideas about how to make combat grittier.

Please try to refrain from "just use system x" etc.

I realize 4e is not inherently very grim or gritty and AGoT may be a strange fit but I want to see what can be done to increase that quotient somewhat and head more towards a GRRM feel.

So far we are already taking a modified version of Green Ronin's ASoIaF House making rules to determine what the house the players are from will look like.

We are also going with mostly Martial characters for PCs at the start of the game. So far there will be the Fighter, Rogue, Warlord, Ranger and Barbarian classes available; including the Essentials versions/sub-classes.

I have been thinking something towards a VP/WP split or perhaps a disease track sort of implementation for wound progression? I have just not come up with anything I am happy with yet.

 

[Mentat55]

I have a few suggestions. These will have pretty serious impacts on game play:

• Get rid of healing surges and powers that grant healing (with or without surges).
• Make second wind some sort of temporary hit points, rather than real healing.
• Have extended rests only heal only a portion of your damage.
• Make bloodied some sort of cut-off between 'fake' damage (minor cuts, bruises, fatigue) and 'real' damage.
• Reduce hit points and increase damage for both PCs and monsters. Reducing hit points by 50% and doubling damage will make for very swingy, very bloody fights, I think, especially without healing.

 

[Quickleaf]

I am looking into getting an A Game of Thrones based 4e game off the ground and I was hoping for some ideas about how to make combat grittier.

Off the cuff I'd say change how resting works. I imagine each day won't have more than 2 battles or so, at least that's how the source material goes. So instead of linking daily powers to extended rests I'd link them to an "adrenaline" mechanic. PCs have to reach a milestone (however you define it) before they can use a daily power. IOW they've got to get charged up before they can use their best tricks. Maybe use 1 daily per milestone reached? So after the Battle of the Green Fork when Rob takes Jaime Lannister captive, Rob would "unlock" one of his dailies.

I realize 4e is not inherently very grim or gritty and AGoT may be a strange fit but I want to see what can be done to increase that quotient somewhat and head more towards a GRRM feel.

What if healing surges are a precious commodity that don't recharge for an entire season. Which makes the long winters all the more terrifying. This would mess with the warlord and second wind, however, so I'd go with Mentat55's advice and make those grant temporary HP instead (doesn't stack and goes away at end of encounter). Someone will definitely want training in Heal.

So far we are already taking a modified version of Green Ronin's ASoIaF House making rules to determine what the house the players are from will look like.

From what I've heard of ASoIaF RPG, the house rules are really good.

We are also going with mostly Martial characters for PCs at the start of the game. So far there will be the Fighter, Rogue, Warlord, Ranger and Barbarian classes available; including the Essentials versions/sub-classes.

What about the essentials assassin? That seems like a great fit.

I have been thinking something towards a VP/WP split or perhaps a disease track sort of implementation for wound progression? I have just not come up with anything I am happy with yet.

The two best approaches I've seen online are...

77IM's variant allows PCs to take on wounds voluntarily, it's based on ASoIaF actually (he credits Keith Baker as coming up with the idea):
http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-fan-creations-house-rules/240891-wound-system.html

P1NBACK's variant models wounds with a disease track. The injury points system he uses is a bit arcane, so I would instead go with: "At end of encounter in which a PC was bloodied they make a save vs wounding. Fail and gain a wound. If a PC was dropped to 0 HP they automatically get a wound."
http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-fan-creations-house-rules/275774-wound-dying.html

 

[Ferghis]

P1NBACK's variant models wounds with a disease track. The injury points system he uses is a bit arcane, so I would instead go with: "At end of encounter in which a PC was bloodied they make a save vs wounding. Fail and gain a wound. If a PC was dropped to 0 HP they automatically get a wound."
http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-fan-creations-house-rules/275774-wound-dying.html

This sounds good.

Since battles will be more lethal, I imagine they will also be a bit more rare (characters who can will be more inclined to diplomacy their way around an encounter), so maybe give plenty of xp for skill challenges.

Maybe use the trait system to flesh out the part of the game that's less combat-focused?
Traits (4E) - Hastur

 

[DragoonLance]

It really depends on how complex you want to get. When I ran a "realistic" hexcrawl game for 4e I made the relatively simple change of short rests to "one nights rest in a safe place" (like an inn, camping outside was dangerous) and changed extended rests to "several weeks resting in a secure, well staffed location," like a castle. This made adventuring and the seriously spaced out encounters (for 4e anyway) much more of a risk if they kept pressing on, and they needed to occasionally rely on hirelings/followers to help out.

 

[Herremann the Wise]

I reckon you can bash 4e into what you want well enough although I also think that you should be informed by two important books:
- Robert Schwalb's recent A Song of Ice and Fire RPG
- White Wolf's d20/Tri-Stat A Game of Thrones RPG.

The former will give you some nice ideas for encounter powers (I would almost entirely rebuild powers for the classes you decide upon) as well as give you a good guide as to which 4e powers to keep and use. You could perhaps expand upon diplomacy, intimidate, bluff and insight skill powers to take advantage of some of the fine work Rob did introducing social encounters in exactly the same form as combat encounters (giving all but the broadest sweeping skill challenges the flick in favour of more highly detailed social interactions).

The second book is hard to get (there were only a 1000 of the almost 600 page long books produced) and something particularly special. The amount of Westeros campaign information in it is simply breathtaking - from obscure house information to little known history to names and so much more - all approved by GRRM. I think it breaks down the classes really well that you could then graft 4e powers onto quite easily. If you are familiar with 3e/d20/OGL, then I think it will inform the choices you make nicely. It has a lot of optional combat rules that you could port almost directly to 4e to make it grittier.

While I think you have set yourself a difficult and time-consuming task, I think it would be incredibly rewarding and a hell of a lot of fun to do; and so best of luck.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[Mattachine]

Less Armor

I suggest using more realistic values for encumbrance and armor penalties. This is an excerpt from my own book, Under a False Sky:

[FONT=&quot]Additionally, metal armor and encumbrance are treated a little less heroically Under a False Sky than in a standard campaign. Characters’ carrying capacity uses a base of 5 pounds per point of strength. Only a fairly strong PC can fully equip metal armor, weapon, and shield without being encumbered. When carrying a heavy load, the character takes a -2 penalty to speed (rather than being slowed), which stacks with any speed penalty caused by the armor. Additionally, when a PC makes an Endurance check while carrying more than a light load, there is a -4 penalty. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Likewise, armor incurs greater penalties to speed and skills, as shown by the table below:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]REVISED ARMOR PENALTIES[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Armor Type Check Speed [/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Cloth -- -- [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Leather -2 -- [/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Hide -3 -1 [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Chain -5 -1 [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Scale -4 -1 [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Plate -6 -2 [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Light Shield -3 -- [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Heavy Shield -5 -- [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Though magic items are exceedingly rare, masterwork armor and weapons are known. Items made of special materials are rarely found, as well. Such special substances include mithral, adamantine, deep crystal, and even ferroplasm. These items might provide a slight enhancement bonus, a reduction in armor check and speed penalties, or have some other useful property.[/FONT]


Another thing to do--no magic items, but also, do not use the Inherent Bonuses rule. This makes PCs less tough, and also makes their choices of stats, skills, and feats more important.

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The link to the book's pdf is here: http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-fan...ayers-guide-under-false-sky-134-page-pdf.html
[/FONT]

 

[Ferdil]

Well, i guess Jaime would be a Slayer ...

Eddard -> Warlord
Robert -> Slayer
Loras -> Knight
Arya -> Rogue/Thief
Robb -> Warlord

And so following ... you would use mostly martial classes for everyone.

The monster-as-threat-to-the-party mentality of 4e won't work too well for AGoT, so I guess you should stat all human characters out at least as NPCs.

Also, the everyone-should-have-something-to-do-during-combat doesn't work to well with the theme of the series, but I don't know if you can do anything about it. Personally, I'd use one of the systems expecially tailored for Song of Ice and Fire.

 

[Ferghis]

Also, the everyone-should-have-something-to-do-during-combat doesn't work to well with the theme of the series, but I don't know if you can do anything about it.

I agree that this is a real issue. The difference in power level and specialty (not sure if that's the right word) among the various characters in any given book makes some completely useless in a given encounter. I wish I had a suggestion as to how to fix it. But I don't.