Interesting Tweet

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

The problem is that all those people who are playing older editions are doing just fine without support from WotC. What does WotC really have to offer them?

Reprints of the rulebooks? Well, a few people would buy to replace worn copies. A few people would buy new copies out of interest. But lots? (Personally, I'd pick up the BECM "Rules Cyclopedia" and a couple of 3.5e PHB, but that's it.)

New adventures? WotC don't exactly have a good reputation for adventures, the OSR provide plenty for pre-3e editions, and Paizo would seem to have the 3.x/PF market covered.

New rules/settings? I can't imagine those having more than minor appeal.

So, really, what do WotC have to offer?

You're looking at it the wrong way round. WotC is sitting on the back catalog of official D&D work that only they have the rights to sell. iTunes has shown us that, if you make getting something legally cheap and convenient enough, most people will do it.

All of the pre-4E stuff WotC is sitting on is making them zero cash right now. If, on the other hand, they could produce good quality PDFs (new ones, in other words), they could turn property that makes them nothing into property that makes them money. And, the best part is, once the labor's done once, it becomes a profit center from then on.

The big concerns they'll have will be about piracy, with some arguing that it could ruin the whole enterprise, and others saying the pirates are already out there, and this would at least offer the people who want to pay a way to do it.

And as digital books grow in popularity -- and for every person who screams that they'll never use PDFs, there's a bunch more people buying all their new books in Kindle format -- that legal audience will just keep growing and growing.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

Wizards_DnD Wizards_DnD
"We are looking at ways to keep ALL editions of #dnd alive." #dndsdcc
23 Jul

When placed in the context with what Mike Mearls is talking about in those Legends & Lore articles, I think that quote makes a lot of sense. Now whether it means new edition or a tweaking of 4E only they know. All I'm asking that I dont think alot of people here are asking themselves is this:

Why the talking out loud about D&D design? What's more he's not really talking about the design that exists. He's talking about possible CHANGES or TWEAKS to the design.

The other thing here is that he's not really offering up detailed how too's on how to make what he's talking about a reality in your games at present. If he were doing that, I'd say that 4E is fairly safe and long for this world in it's present form. The fact that these articles are coming fairly consistently instead has me thinking that this is part of the design process for either a separate game, a series of mods and tweaks (like an Unearthed Arcana for 4E) or a new version of D&D. It seems like he's putting the feelers out for what might work and what gets panned by the people reading it.

I dont play 4E and nor do I have any intention of doing so. but reading those design entries are interesting because it's reading him go into the process of design and what he thinks D&D is and should be. Some of the stuff I agree with and other parts of it has me thanking God that he's nowhere near the development of the game that I enjoy playing.

Still, like I said it's interesting reading.

 

[El Mahdi]

The problem is that all those people who are playing older editions are doing just fine without support from WotC. What does WotC really have to offer them?

Well, while I'm not necessarily representative of everyone that plays older editions, and even though I am doing just fine...I can think of lot's of things that WotC could offer me (that I don't or won't buy now):

1. First and Foremost, I want to be able to legally purchase older edition materials, in a downloadable electronic format, that I no longer have, never had but wanted (just hadn't gotten to them yet), and have access to them for new players coming into the game. (Yes, people can and do come into the game as new players through older editions...)
2. If the above happened, then I would buy a DDI sub in a New York minute if it had older edition support. WotC could offer me, and I would most definitely pay for:
   1. Dungeon and Dragon with occasional older edition support or included conversion info with articles.
   2. Older Edition rules support on the VTT.
   3. Houserules support on the VTT
   4. Older Edition Compendiums
   5. Older Edtion Character Builders, Monster Builders, and Encounter Builders with Houserule capability.
   6. A Character Visualizer (from the original plans for DDI)
   7. A 3D VTT (also from the original plans for DDI)
   8. Virtual Minis for the VTT (based on the minis that only WotC has copyright to)

Do that, and I'd even start buying the occasional 4E product again (or 5E if that's what is out by then) - even though I don't necessarily play in that system (just like I did before the pdf fiasco).


Seems like a good enough reason to me...

 

[ShinHakkaider]

And as digital books grow in popularity -- and for every person who screams that they'll never use PDFs, there's a bunch more people buying all their new books in Kindle format -- that legal audience will just keep growing and growing.

Exactly. It's impractical for me to run my games using hardcopy books now. It just is. PDF allows for ease of use even if it's just printing out an encounter maps and marking the changes that I made to an encounter RIGHT ON THE MAP. Making notes in the margins without feeling like I was ruining my printed copy. Cutting and Pasting NPC's and monsters to word and changing them as I see fit as opposed to copying stuff manually by hand which was getting old REEEEEEEEEAAAAAAL Fast.

I know there are publishers out there who said that they well never produce PDF's of their games. I can only say to those people that I will never buy and use your game. A hard copy for quick reference is still fine. Despite the fact that I'm running most of my game from my iPad these days I still find having a HC around for quick reference to be handy but otherwise? PDF all the way....

 

[El Mahdi]

Yeah, but that means nothing. People want to play 'D&D' (in whatever form or edition it is). That's why there's still all this clamoring for WotC to go back to support previous editions. If people were fine with not playing 'D&D'... no one would care that they weren't, they'd play all these alternative virtual tables, and we wouldn't hear anything about the hope that the VTT eventually would support the other editions.

Quite honestly, I think that the desire to want to play "D&D" or wanting to play "Official D&D" doesn't necessarily extend to a choice of VTT for most players/groups.

First, VTT's are likely not the primary way most people play. Most people are still likely split between those that use a good ole battlematt or just prefer mini-less combat.

Second, I also believe that most people who want to use a VTT, will choose one that's the cheapest but supports their rules system (or is houserule compatible), before they'll pay $10 a month for a VTT that doesn't support their rules system (or houserules), and comes bundled with a lot of other edition stuff they're never going to use - whether official or not.

Lastly, I believe the "Hope" that the DDI VTT will support older editions, goes hand-in-hand with the "Hope" that DDI (not just the VTT) will support older edtitions (in the form of pdf's, Dungeon and Dragon support, compendiums, builders, etc.). Whether the VTT supports older editions is likely secondary to that for most of those who want the support.

 

[Crothian]

So, really, what do WotC have to offer?

In addition to just offering PDFs of the old catalog items I think they could do some short run high quality updates of the larger adventure arcs. They could keep the adventures the same, but do better and larger maps. Come up with side adventures and better ways DM can link the adventures together. Imagine taking the Desert of Desolation series and adding color maps, better over all descriptions of the area, DM advice on how to handle certain rooms and NPCs. They place it all together in a hard bound book or box set print just one or 5 thousand of them and then sell it at a slightly inflated cost.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Quite honestly, I think that the desire to want to play "D&D" or wanting to play "Official D&D" doesn't necessarily extend to a choice of VTT for most players/groups.

Eh... I'd disagree with that. I think there's a much larger population of people who won't actually start using VTTs until the official WotC one gets released. It'll be the "real" one, and that branding alone will be what inspires people to use it. Even if another company keeps saying "ours will do what you want, but better!".

It's the same reason why many players never bought any 3E third-party-products. There was an inherent belief that the official WotC products were the "real" D&D products, and they were good enough that there was no need to buy others. Even if some of them might've been considered "better".

 

[UngainlyTitan]

I suspect that any previous edition support will be very DDI centric. I do not see pdf support returning, at least not via means outside DDI. In the long run the older core books and other hardcover material/boxed set material is more likely to appear via what ever ebook format WoTC finally decides on.

By the way where on the VTT is this option to support older editions?

 

[Sammael]

I couldn't care less about VTT, but if they actually add 3.x and older materials to the database and allow easy search/access, I'm game for a DDI subscription (as I've said before... many times).

 

[El Mahdi]

By the way where on the VTT is this option to support older editions?

I don't think it necessarily supports older edition play, as in you can use it for older edition play as just a basic virtual battlemat with no specific rules support. You'd have to do most of your own bookeeping, each player would need to have their character sheet, the DM would have to have copies, and most info other than visual representation of position would have to be done through some form of communication (does the DDI VTT have a built in means of comunication - like texting or skype, or something???).