Is D&D "about" combat?

[Corathon]

What D&D is "about" depends on those playing it; it varies from group to group.

IMO, combat is an important part of D&D - but not the game's sole (or even primary) focus. Exploration, role-playing, the satisfaction of success, learning from failure, and becoming an important part of the game world are all important parts of D&D for me, and (while I enjoy a good fight) combat does not overshadow the others.

 

[Aberzanzorax]

"Is D&D about roleplaying?"

Yes.

D&D is a roleplaying game.

D&D is not a combat game.

How many times has there been debate and forceful defense as to whether 4e is a roleplaying game? It is more than just a tactical miniatures game. You even (can/should/do) roleplay during combat.

In fact, while you're not in combat the entire time you're playing, you ARE roleplaying the entire time you're playing.

So you're saying 4e is a game "about combat." I had finally been convinced that it was "about roleplaying" (and, in fact, I remain so convinced).


I'm surprised by the people who are taking the tack that D&D is "about combat". I'm also surprised by the points they are using to back up the fact that it is supposedly about combat, and how these same points are the opposite points people usually use in the whole "can you roleplay in 4e? is it an rpg?" arguments that crop up ever now and then.

I mean "lots of rules for combat and few rules for roleplaying doesn't take away from the roleplaying, in fact, it's liberating" is something I've begun to believe for a certain style of gaming. Yet the exact opposite is being touted now, saying "3/4 of the rules are about combat, so the game is about combat."

WHAT?

 

[Jhaelen]

If a lay person asked me to describe what D&D was, I'd tell them something along the lines of "It's a fantasy game of pretend but you have rules that help shape what you can and can't do, and how well you can do it."

I think, that's what I might say if asked what a roleplaying game was.

I would not tell them "It's a fantasy combat game." I doubt anyone who plays would describe it soley as that, then walk away, assuming the person now knew what D&D is. They wouldn't be wrong, but they'd be incomplete to do so.

I agree. That's how I might describe DDM, though.

I'd mention combat only to elaborate on typical activities pcs might engage in, to explain the need for rules, or to explain the difference between D&D and other rpgs, particularly if the person had already heard something about rpgs in general.

E.g. here in Germany it's not uncommon that someone knows 'Das Schwarze Auge' (The Dark Eye) but not D&D.
Among those who've heard of D&D but never played it, it is a common opinion that D&D is all about 'hack & slash'. That's actually something I'd deny.

I'd tell them that this is a common misconception because many groups play it that way and D&D supports that playstyle very well because of its elegant, tactical combat rules and its roots in table-top war games.
Then I'd point out the changes from one edition to the next, highlighting the evolution of the skill system, culminating in 4e's introduction of skill challenges as a means to resolve non-combat encounters.

But I'd not deny that combat is an important part of D&D. I might even say that it's rare for a session to not involve any combat at all.

To sum it up: First and foremost D&D is a roleplaying game. Nonetheless, it is about combat, but not _all_ about combat (as someone already mentioned in the first couple of posts). A (somewhat) subtle but important difference.

 

[ThirdWizard]

A while back a guy joined my group who had only played Rifts. He wasn't really sure about playing D&D. He had heard talk about it, and maybe he had even seen something of it. His opinion wasn't that it was about combat, though. Oh no. His opinion was that it was about maps.

 

[Stoat]

A while back a guy joined my group who had only played Rifts. He wasn't really sure about playing D&D. He had heard talk about it, and maybe he had even seen something of it. His opinion wasn't that it was about combat, though. Oh no. His opinion was that it was about maps.

I used to have a bunch of really cool maps for my old RIFTS game. I wonder if they're still around.

 

[havard]

This thread touches on something that has been bothering me for a while. The current trend in RPG design seems to be that each RPG should be designed around a concept.

What drew me to D&D and RPGs in the first place was instead that they could be about anything we felt like doing at the time.

-Havard

 

[Dannager]

I'm surprised by the people who are taking the tack that D&D is "about combat". I'm also surprised by the points they are using to back up the fact that it is supposedly about combat, and how these same points are the opposite points people usually use in the whole "can you roleplay in 4e? is it an rpg?" arguments that crop up ever now and then.

I mean "lots of rules for combat and few rules for roleplaying doesn't take away from the roleplaying, in fact, it's liberating" is something I've begun to believe for a certain style of gaming. Yet the exact opposite is being touted now, saying "3/4 of the rules are about combat, so the game is about combat."

WHAT?

Consider, for a moment, that the positions of "D&D is about combat," and "You can roleplay just fine in D&D," are not exclusive of one another.

 

[Dannager]

This thread touches on something that has been bothering me for a while. The current trend in RPG design seems to be that each RPG should be designed around a concept.

What drew me to D&D and RPGs in the first place was instead that they could be about anything we felt like doing at the time.

-Havard

You can make D&D do anything you want it to, with enough work. That doesn't mean that D&D was designed to do everything equally well, or with equal ease of implementation.

 

[Dannager]

It's not really a game until people start playing it. Until then it's just a pretty book of suitable size to put on a coffee table.

That's certainly one way to look at it, but I'm pretty sure a game exists whether or not someone is currently playing it.

Someone can come along and tell you that Tetris is about transcending the realm of the physical and embracing the abstract, but that doesn't necessarily mean that we should take that viewpoint seriously as a way to examine how people in general tend to play Tetris.

I think I've made it pretty clear that you can play D&D in whatever way you might care to, but I'm arguing that any one individual's preferred way of playing the game is less useful to us understanding how the game is played and what it is about than examining the thought process used to design the game would be. This is no different than what Umbran said way back on page 3.

It strikes me as weird that anyone would consider this a controversial or even an offensive position.

Being dismissive of people's experience playing the game is insulting and intellectually dishonest.

I'm sorry that you are offended by the point I'm trying to make, but I assure you that there is nothing intellectually dishonest about it. I'd appreciate it if these sorts of accusations were retired for the course of this thread.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

I answered yes...at least as far as 4e goes.

When 4e came out I was really gung-ho for it for a couple reasons. One was the GM could now prepare an adventure without making it a part time job statting up NPCs. The second was that the combat rules had morphed into a REALLY FUN miniatures battles sub-game.

Several years later, I am still happy my GM doesn't blow a gasket getting the NPCs ready for our adventures...but the REALLY FUN miniatures game is now stale and boring.

In older iterations of DnD, as well as other RPGs, we would have rarely used maps, much less miniatures for tactical movement. In 3e we always used maps and miniatures, however it still felt (notice I say felt, as in how it feels personally) like we were using the accessories along with an RPG experience.

In 4e my feeling is that my evening is divided up into "D&D the RPG" and "D&D the Miniatures Battle Game" depending on if we are in rounds or not. I still enjoy the RPG aspect but am tired of the miniatures game.

DS