Heresy in D&D

[Quickleaf]

What would heresy look like in the world of D&D where gods grant followers divine spells, angels and devils visit mortal realms, and powerful adventurers can planewalk through various afterlives? And would there be a difference across editions?

This issue came up recently in my 4e game. There's an anti-clerical populist (the Heresy of St. Ilia) sect which opposes the practice of selling the raise dead ritual (called 'resurgences' in their rhetoric), decrying it as a tool of the elite to stay entrenched in power, a sacred power pawned off to the highest bidder, a denial of judgment for crimes committed in life, carrying even greater weight than beseeching a king to pardon a victim sentenced to die. In part this is a fantasy interpretation of the Protestant Reformation, but I haven't quite hammered out the other aspects of the movement that make it a full-fledged heresy.

 

[Ed_Laprade]

I can't really answer the question, but can it be a heresy if none of the gods smite the heretics, or demand that they be smited (word?)?

 

[Corathon]

There are several ways that you can work this, even in a world where gods grant spells (or deny them) at their pleasure.

For example, the followers of Saint Illa might receive spells from some other being (Another god, a demon lord, an archdevil) in the guise of the deity that they nominally serve. Thus the original churchmen and the heretics can both say "Look! We get clerical spells, so the god approves of us!". This will create enough confusion among ordinary people to allow the heresy to prosper.

The deity behind both the established church and the heretics might be divided in some way (divine multiple-personality disorder, has two contradictory aspects, or just unable to make up its mind about the issue underlying the schism) and is supporting both sides.

The deity behind both the established church and the heretics might be asleep, or imprisoned, or dead, and the god's mightiest followers (e.g. demigods, solars, saints, or what have you) may be divided into 2 camps. One side supports the established church, the other the heretics.

 

[billd91]

Sure, there can be heresy. It'll vary from campaign setting to campaign setting more than it would vary from edition to edition. Editions define the rules, but campaign settings define the politics, religious authorities, and dogmas, and those are the important elements when dealing with the idea of heresy.

 

[gamerprinter]

What would heresy look like in the world of D&D where gods grant followers divine spells, angels and devils visit mortal realms, and powerful adventurers can planewalk through various afterlives? And would there be a difference across editions?

This issue came up recently in my 4e game. There's an anti-clerical populist (the Heresy of St. Ilia) sect which opposes the practice of selling the raise dead ritual (called 'resurgences' in their rhetoric), decrying it as a tool of the elite to stay entrenched in power, a sacred power pawned off to the highest bidder, a denial of judgment for crimes committed in life, carrying even greater weight than beseeching a king to pardon a victim sentenced to die. In part this is a fantasy interpretation of the Protestant Reformation, but I haven't quite hammered out the other aspects of the movement that make it a full-fledged heresy.

Sounds interesting, and doable in my game.

I can't really answer the question, but can it be a heresy if none of the gods smite the heretics, or demand that they be smited (word?)?

'Smit' as in 'smitten' is the word.

There are several ways that you can work this, even in a world where gods grant spells (or deny them) at their pleasure.

For example, the followers of Saint Illa might receive spells from some other being (Another god, a demon lord, an archdevil) in the guise of the deity that they nominally serve. Thus the original churchmen and the heretics can both say "Look! We get clerical spells, so the god approves of us!". This will create enough confusion among ordinary people to allow the heresy to prosper.

The deity behind both the established church and the heretics might be divided in some way (divine multiple-personality disorder, has two contradictory aspects, or just unable to make up its mind about the issue underlying the schism) and is supporting both sides.

The deity behind both the established church and the heretics might be asleep, or imprisoned, or dead, and the god's mightiest followers (e.g. demigods, solars, saints, or what have you) may be divided into 2 camps. One side supports the established church, the other the heretics.

It doesn't even have to be that extreme. The same god could have a much more loose interpretation of its own rulings that a specific cult or religion. As long as certain minimum requirements are prescribed, a god might allow spells to a wider worshipping base. So both the established and heretical branches of a given deity are acceptable to the god, and thus are fully granted spell abilities, without fear of an inquisition against them.

More often than not the prejudices between parties is a human interpretation of the divine law or communion with said spirit. Sure some deities might be more anal regarding the letter of his divine law, and such heresy would be empty (as he wouldn't spiritually support the wrong point of view.) It really depends on your GM play style and the specific campaign you're playing.

In my games the difference between your establish church and the heretical one, would be from a human point of view, not one-sided view from the deity's stand point.

 

[wrecan]

In my worlds, generally, divine practitioners get access to divine power by being anointed into the faith. In that way, divine practice is more theurgical than faithful. It's up to the followers to keep themselves pure.

That said, the gods can directly intervene, by sending angels and other intermediaries. But their knowledge is limited, and they generally can't peek into the minds of their adherents to see if their faith is sincere. Instead, by their acts are they judged.

So church schisms can occur. If one faction of the Church of Pelor thinks it's more important to heal than to smite, and another faction thinks it's more important to smite than to heal, the Church could legitimately split. And both factions can be confident they are right, unless an angel or avatar of Pelor comes down from on high points at one factions and says "You're both wrong. Healing and smiting are both important in the right situation. I know we're all Lawful good here, but stop making everything so black and white. Now repent of this schism or I'm going to smite you all!"

(Or more interestingly, if angels of Pelor are themselves split and begin supporting both factions!)

 

[Crazy Jerome]

In my worlds, generally, divine practitioners get access to divine power by being anointed into the faith. In that way, divine practice is more theurgical than faithful. It's up to the followers to keep themselves pure.

My understanding of 4E is that your position is the default. You don't need to go through gyrations to justify it, because the gods don't grant spells directly every day.

So for a heresy, you just need some recognized branch of the faith in question to say something is, and not be so totally wacko that everyone just laughs and ignores it.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I can picture a Medieval Europe-style campaign, except with magic (both divine and arcane).

You have one powerful religion (guess) which grants "sanctioned" spells. Said religion must be powerful in order to hunt down and enforce their prohibition on other religions and other kinds of magic. Worship of other religions is forbidden, and anyone caught casting prayers devoted to another deity gets burned at the stake. (For extra fun, the cleric must loudly proclaim the name of their deity whenever they cast a prayer.)

Wizards have to hide their magic, and powerful ones have to build secure structures to avoid being overrun. Needless to say, killing mages before they get powerful solves an issue for the religion.

Another second type of heresy, sect wars, would get interesting if members of both factions of the religion could cast spells, or if evil clerics were found who could still cast those spells, etc. (I suppose the evils would be referred to as "heretics" who worship demons, even if that's not true.)

 

[Quickleaf]

It doesn't even have to be that extreme. The same god could have a much more loose interpretation of its own rulings that a specific cult or religion. As long as certain minimum requirements are prescribed, a god might allow spells to a wider worshipping base. So both the established and heretical branches of a given deity are acceptable to the god, and thus are fully granted spell abilities, without fear of an inquisition against them.

During younger stages of a heresy that makes sense, but what happens when it directly opposes/is opposed by the heterodoxy? Is there a tipping point at which the deity needs to pick a side to minimize bloodshed/bring the faithful in line? Or would the deity be better off letting them go at it, rather than wholly disenfranchising one side, expecting the conflict to work itself out in time?

In my worlds, generally, divine practitioners get access to divine power by being anointed into the faith. In that way, divine practice is more theurgical than faithful. It's up to the followers to keep themselves pure.

I'm running a 4e game and that's pretty much the built-in assumption: once you're a cleric, you're a cleric for life.

Actually, that kinds of ties in with the Heresy of St. Ilia's anti-clerical stance; they maintain the clergy lacks sufficient oversight to reign in abuses, and that once invested with power clerics can do whatever the hell they want as they ascend in the temple hierarchy.

Also, the heresiarchs might make an unlikely alliance with a rebellious paladin/warden whose beliefs are a synthesis of the Old Ways (primal/Druidic religion) and the organized temple (standard D&D pantheon). I'm still working out the why's and how's...

 

[nightwyrm]

I sort of imagine D&D deities as CEOs of mega-corporations. He's not gonna stick his nose into a policy dispute between two store managers. That's what he hired a bunch of high-priests, popes and angels to take care of. He might not even notice there's anything wrong going on unless it seriously cuts into his profit margins. He's too busy golfing with other gods, managing his mistresses and plotting hostile planar take-overs.