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Anyone Currently Playing Fantasycraft?

CuRoi

First Post
So I was getting burned out running 3/3.5e after many years and took a bit of a break. Ran a Serenity campaign (Cortex rules base) fell back into only playing (for like the first time in...err...ever?) and recently ran a Pathfinder one-shot game for a DM that was heading to Gen-Con (won't start that on a regular basis - see sentence number one.)

In my spare time I started a thought experiment to alter 3.5 to my liking and ended up with a "what if True20 had a baby with 4e that was raised by Fudge" sort of idea which is still mostly theorectical and not ready for play. My urge to DM however doesn't have the patience for me to finish this project before I get back behind the screen again.

I then ran across Fantasycraft and I am pretty intrigued. (Yeah, again, I'm behind on the curve having been holed up in my 3e hermitage for so many years now.) However, it seems from surfing around a lot of people were intrigued, nay RAVING about this system when it first came out but seems as though it is no longer being played much.

So, anyone out there playing it and have any thoughts on the system as a whole?
 

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I'm running two games of it at the moment, one of which is a conversion of Paizo's Rise of the Runelords. Unsurprisingly I see it discussed most on Crafty's boards.

It's far, far easier to run then 3.5. The NPC system (and the NPC builder) and the sliding DC system make prep a breeze. I'd never, by choice, run a 3.X or Pathfinder game. FC is pleasure to run though.

What questions did you have?
 

I'm running two games of it at the moment, one of which is a conversion of Paizo's Rise of the Runelords. Unsurprisingly I see it discussed most on Crafty's boards.

It's far, far easier to run then 3.5. The NPC system (and the NPC builder) and the sliding DC system make prep a breeze. I'd never, by choice, run a 3.X or Pathfinder game. FC is pleasure to run though.

What questions did you have?

Thanks for the responses.

Well, my main question relates precisely to frankthedm's response. Crunchy. I don't mind crunchy so much. However, I dont want crunchy to munch up our story...

I really enjoy the PC creation process and think my players would get a kick out of it as well. That almost had me straight up converting. The "crunchiness" there was plain fun and made some interesting characters for people to RP.

However, I keep hearing that Fantasycraft runs much smoother than 3.5. But I see things like the following in the rules and get a bit leary:

Say a wizard casts a fireball. He rolls a skill check, the targets each roll saves for 1/2. They then roll saves to avoid catching on fire and burning each round. Next, they roll Will saves to avoid being forced to just stop drop and roll. Finally, you roll to randomly determine which way the fire spreads each round. :confused:

Thats all from one action...or am I missing something here? Easier than 3.5? Sure, they dropped AoOs and some of the other annoying things that could really drag on combat but I'm not sure 4+ rolls for the targets of an area spell won't just grind things to a complete halt more than someone figuring out if the space they are is threatened or not. (That said the idea of people lighting up from a Fireball is glorious, heh.)

Also, the little things like varying (and changing) error and crit ranges, tracking 4 kinds of damage, etc. etc. It seems like the bookkeeping alone would outweigh any streamlining they did for the 3.5 system.

So, what am I missing here? How smooth is it really running and if you have any players that are sort of "rules light" type players, how have they adapted? (I got a couple out of the 6 we normally game with...)

Also, you say you like the NPC section, once I got that far in the book I got to admit on a first glance I was a bit turned off. I get why they are using all the roman numerals and such but it is SUCH A PAIN to keep referencing a table to fill out all the blank places on a monster. There's some extra work right there I didn't need with DnD unless I wanted it or needed it for a special encounter - I could always just open the page to a monster and -go-.
 

However, I keep hearing that Fantasycraft runs much smoother than 3.5. But I see things like the following in the rules and get a bit leary:

Say a wizard casts a fireball. He rolls a skill check, the targets each roll saves for 1/2. They then roll saves to avoid catching on fire and burning each round. Next, they roll Will saves to avoid being forced to just stop drop and roll. Finally, you roll to randomly determine which way the fire spreads each round. :confused:

Thats all from one action...or am I missing something here? Easier than 3.5? Sure, they dropped AoOs and some of the other annoying things that could really drag on combat but I'm not sure 4+ rolls for the targets of an area spell won't just grind things to a complete halt more than someone figuring out if the space they are is threatened or not. (That said the idea of people lighting up from a Fireball is glorious, heh.)

It hasn't been much of an issue, which I will admit is because neither of my Mages are capable of casting Fireball and I don't have anyone with access to the Path of Fire.

That said, a lot of those roles don't come up in play. The Spellcasting check, damage roll, and save for half will, and aren't much different then D&D. Checking to see if things catch on fire can be interesting, but first I'd see if the targets survive. At a minimum Fireball I will do 3d6, or an average of 10 points, 5 if they save. The 'typical' TL 7 NPC (Resistance III) will have a +4 save. A 'typical' 7th level Mage with the Wizard specialty can easily have a Save DC of 15 (Cha 14 and two more Spellcasting feats). So most NPCs will fail to save. This is a damage save DC of 15 or 12, with a 'typical' NPC (Health III or IV) at TL 7 having a +4 to that. So they're going to typically fail if they took full damage, or just make it for half. A trick I use for big numbers of NPCs is not to roll the save, and just declare it a 10. Using that trick, most stock Standard NPCs of a non-monstery type are just dead. Check one to see if a fire sarted if you want, or don't worry about it.

Also, the little things like varying (and changing) error and crit ranges, tracking 4 kinds of damage, etc. etc. It seems like the bookkeeping alone would outweigh any streamlining they did for the 3.5 system.

Vitality and wounds work pretty much like HP. Subdual and Stress work like damage saves in True20 (more or less). Error and Threat ranges don't change much in play, and if they do it's almost always the PCs, so it's the player's job to remember.

So, what am I missing here? How smooth is it really running and if you have any players that are sort of "rules light" type players, how have they adapted? (I got a couple out of the 6 we normally game with...)

Depends how you mean Rules Light. I have a diehard Storyteller fan who hasn't whined once. Someone who considers FATE just right may have issues though. Many diehard Indie gamers would probably consider it too much too. I would whole heartedly recomend the Narrative Control and Cheating Death rules for people used to less crunchy Narrative games then FC.

Also, you say you like the NPC section, once I got that far in the book I got to admit on a first glance I was a bit turned off. I get why they are using all the roman numerals and such but it is SUCH A PAIN to keep referencing a table to fill out all the blank places on a monster. There's some extra work right there I didn't need with DnD unless I wanted it or needed it for a special encounter - I could always just open the page to a monster and -go-.

Yes, you loose some of that. Of course the NPC Builder solves a lot of that by letting you copy and paste a stat block and calculate it for whatever TL you want. The other trick is when the PCs go and do something and you want an opposing skill check result now is to usethe Sliding DC table and then either figure out the NPC later or just tack 5 or 10 base XP on. Refrencing the tables gets easier as you do it too.
 

Great! Thanks for the answers. So, the Fireball example was perhaps a bit extreme but between reading and skimming I was looking at how Fantasy Craft handled common scenarios. (I completely missed the reduced Fireball damage as well). It's good to know that its the exception not the rule.

By "rules light" I suppose I mean someone that enjoys the game, interacting with the story and making the rolls/roles happen but doesn't care much about knowing the details (or just never seems to pick up on them.) With 3.5 DnD mostly, this falls under combat and perhaps some fiddly feats. But the basic underlying mechanic is roll a d20, roll damage, record damage. My concern would be in Fantasy Craft it seems the combat rules are simplified / streamlined but the complexity is pushed a bit to the character sheet. So just a bit worried a player that may need consistent advice on AoOs or something is now going to need regular hand holding tracking the various bits on the sheet.

Thanks for the Narative Control and Cheating Death rules suggestions. I haven't gotten all the way through the book so I either skimmed those or haven't seen them yet.

Need to check out the NPC Builder it sounds like! With 3.5 I found a laptop with software to build and track NPC / Custom monsters pretty indispensable, so that shouldn't be an issue. Still, having a pre-printed list of monsters at "Typical" Threat Levels seems like a decent idea if you are running things on the fly.

Also, I have yet to check much into the gear section. How well does that work? The "lifestyle" stats (panache / prudence) is a new concept to me and I've heard negative things about both Fantasy Craft and earlier Spycraft editions and how they handle gear/equipment. Is it, in your opinion, a good feature and a working one at that?
 

Great! Thanks for the answers. So, the Fireball example was perhaps a bit extreme but between reading and skimming I was looking at how Fantasy Craft handled common scenarios. (I completely missed the reduced Fireball damage as well). It's good to know that its the exception not the rule.

I don't find that combat is slowed by dice rolling in the game, although some might since most actions are resolved with an opposed roll. If you find that happening, see the above Rule of 10 (or whatever you want to call it).

By "rules light" I suppose I mean someone that enjoys the game, interacting with the story and making the rolls/roles happen but doesn't care much about knowing the details (or just never seems to pick up on them.) With 3.5 DnD mostly, this falls under combat and perhaps some fiddly feats. But the basic underlying mechanic is roll a d20, roll damage, record damage. My concern would be in Fantasy Craft it seems the combat rules are simplified / streamlined but the complexity is pushed a bit to the character sheet. So just a bit worried a player that may need consistent advice on AoOs or something is now going to need regular hand holding tracking the various bits on the sheet.

That might be a concern, but the best answer there is for those players to avoid characters with the more complex options. Scott Gearin (aka Morgenstern) posted a series of feats for those who wanted to keep their number of choices in combat down too (Simple combat feats). I haven't seen much of that, although I admit my players tend to be the engaged sort. I have found some quick copy and paste from the PDF to a Document and printing the result out to give new players a summary of their abilities helps those unfamiliar. Similarly, I would strongly recommend starting at 1st level to minimize the number of options in play so your players can get used to them.

Of course, from my perspective as GM, if the players forget their abilities that's their issue, not mine. ;) (Well, if it's a constant thing is sort of is, but you know what I mean.)

Thanks for the Narative Control and Cheating Death rules suggestions. I haven't gotten all the way through the book so I either skimmed those or haven't seen them yet.

They're both in Chapter 7. The narrative control rules are rather simple, basically thy consist of the players spending action dice to change or define aspects of the environment. It's similar to, but not as strictly defined, Adventure! D20's system. Cheating Death basically involves the player of a PC who bought it coming up with a story about how, no, he really survived. I typically allow a certain amount of colaboration, sometimes even helping myself. Once the story's made up, the whole table rates it and the player gets to roll. Good ratings mean it's more likely the PC survives with little consequence. Bad ratings mean it's less likely the PC survives and if he does so it will be with worse consequences (scarring, permanent injuries, hauntings, psychological issues, etc.)

Need to check out the NPC Builder it sounds like! With 3.5 I found a laptop with software to build and track NPC / Custom monsters pretty indispensable, so that shouldn't be an issue. Still, having a pre-printed list of monsters at "Typical" Threat Levels seems like a decent idea if you are running things on the fly.

Tracking is simple, especially since most NPCs are Standard ones. The builder is pretty straight forward, and a laptop is a bit overkill, I can run it on my tablet (Web NPC Builder). There's also tiny windows application that converts the grades to play numbers up on DriveThruRPG for free (Fantasy Craft NPC Builder - Crafty Games | DriveThruRPG.com).

Also, I have yet to check much into the gear section. How well does that work? The "lifestyle" stats (panache / prudence) is a new concept to me and I've heard negative things about both Fantasy Craft and earlier Spycraft editions and how they handle gear/equipment. Is it, in your opinion, a good feature and a working one at that?

I like it, but I know there are others who find it too different then the norm.

The lifestyle stats work smoothly in play. Panache give them a bonus for some social interactions and a bit of coin at the beginning of an 'adventure'. Prudence determines how much of their haul they can save at the end of an 'adventure' and how much they blow on high living. Typically, I let the players do some shopping before downtime to soften some of the sting.

Things like potions and food spoil at the end of the 'adventure' as well.

The number of magic items (and other Prizes, like castles or contacts and such) a character can have is limited by their Renown. Reputation is the 'big' coin used for these sorts of things, if they're available for purchase. Silver is just for mundane stuff (which still includes a number of 'magic' items like potions and scrolls).

The other common thing I've seen as a complaint is that it seems like PCs start off poor. First, it's important to remember that the items listed in the Forge chapter have a mechanical effects. The backpack isn't just a backpack, it's one good enough to give you a bonus to your carrying capacity. That sort of thing. The second is that if you find the amount of silver too low, just increase it. :)
 

However, I dont want crunchy to munch up our story...
Well the rules DO intrude noticeably, like how randomly rolling the treasure for an encounter is part of the system. And there is a feat a player can take that makes the GM roll up double the treasure. Another feat lets one of the character's teammates cheat death every adventure with a minor inconvienence.

And player don't normally keep magic items, unless they pay a character resource to do so.
 

Well the rules DO intrude noticeably, like how randomly rolling the treasure for an encounter is part of the system. And there is a feat a player can take that makes the GM roll up double the treasure. Another feat lets one of the character's teammates cheat death every adventure with a minor inconvienence.

How is this rules intrusion? Random treasure is a longstanding element of RPGs, and the rules cover not using it. The rules even specify that the random tables are to be used as inspiration, and to throw out any roll that doesn't make sense.

Adventurer's Luck is a good feat (heck, they're all good feats) but it's not a feat every party will have. Even then, it just doubles the treasure the party finds. Either you generate two sets, or you just double what you picked out. It's not like the party's going to spring it on you. If it still bugs your sensibilities, don't allow it.

Extra Mile is a great feat, and is not an intrusion of the rules into the story. At least it's no more an intrusion then any raising the dead mechanic in any game. Again, if you don't like it, don't allow the feat. Of course, if it's a problem you probably want to apply the 'Dead Means Dead' quality, throwing out Cheating Death and doubling the cost of Resurrection and such.

And player don't normally keep magic items, unless they pay a character resource to do so.

No, players characters are limited in the number of Prizes they hold. That limit can be raised by spending Reputation to increase their Renown. Which has other effects the just letting them keep more toys.

Typically, I find my PCs have more Prize slots then they have Prizes to put into them. No one's thrown out a Magic Item or other Prize yet.

Also, considering how unnecessary Magic Items are, so what?
 


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