D&D 5E cancelled 5e announcement at Gencon??? Anyone know anything about this?

[JamesonCourage]

Yeah, I think sect is the perfect word here.

sect
1. A group of people forming a distinct unit within a larger group by virtue of certain refinements or distinctions of belief or practice.
2. A religious body, especially one that has separated from a larger denomination.
3. A faction united by common interests or beliefs.

I think you'll find none of the definitions mention extremism, and the first and last don't even mention religion. With that in mind, I doubt you still agree.

 

[Hussar]

Subjectivity. Not everybody sees it as a joke. Shemeska saw it as a potentially awesome adventuring site. I did, too. The designers did not.

In my mind, it's a problem that the designers did not, and it's a bigger problem that the designers felt like other peoples' fun wasn't good enough for their D&D.

Again, it's something like Mike Mearls doing an interview on 5e and saying, "Minis combat?! That's the antithesis of fun. So boring and tedious and unimaginative! Gotta make delicious hamburger out of THAT sacred cow! D&D is not about playing with little plastic toys, I think we all outgrew that by the time we were 8."

If I do that, it's a little different -- I'm some jagoff on the internet, and nobody really cares what I think, and what I think isn't going to majorly affect D&D one way or the other (unless Mearls really is in my head).

If I become a D&D designer and say that, as I'm designing 5e, a lot of minis combat fans would be rather justifiably provoked to nerdrage over it.

Designers have a responsibility to be aware of how their audience has fun with what they make, if only so that they can effectively design a good game that embraces that. I think perspective like that makes a designer better. Arrogance and condescension don't help anyone make anything better, they just help people defend what they don't want to see change.

So, criticising and making fun of the central part of a game is the same as making fun of something from a supplement from years before the game was published?

Heck, I'd never even heard of the Plane of Vacuum before the podcast. Granted, I'm not a huge planes fan, but, come on, it's not like it was a major element of Planescape. If he had made fun of the central themes of Planescape or things like that, I could understand the reaction.

But, seriously, he made fun of the Plane of Vacuum and a creature.

 

[Crothian]

And yet you've done nothing but try to insert yourself into the whole

That fails to answer my question. You are also participating in the conversation. I just want to know what you meant by saying me of all people.

I am participating in this conversation because people were having doubts about the validity of Morrus' statement and were wondering about the reliability of the source. I seem to be the only person who was there that has seen fit to offer my own opinion and experience into the thread.

 

[jaerdaph]

What does that mean me of all people? Aside from meeting him like three times at Gen Con I really don't know the guy.

So did you and Morrus plan this vast conspiracy before or after you crashed your ship in Roswell, New Mexico?

 

[I'm A Banana]

So, criticising and making fun of the central part of a game is the same as making fun of something from a supplement from years before the game was published?

Heck, I'd never even heard of the Plane of Vacuum before the podcast. Granted, I'm not a huge planes fan, but, come on, it's not like it was a major element of Planescape. If he had made fun of the central themes of Planescape or things like that, I could understand the reaction.

Minis combat is a central part of the game for some people, and it's an entirely forgettable add-on for others.

Likewise, the Plane of Vacuum was an important part of the game for some people, and entirely forgettable for others.

The designers should ideally in my view be supporting the way people do have fun, rather than making us all do what they think is fun.

 

[Stoat]

we were 8."
If I become a D&D designer and say that, as I'm designing 5e, a lot of minis combat fans would be rather justifiably provoked to nerdrage over it.

I'm going to take the position that nerdrage is never really justified.*

*Caveat: Han Shot First!

 

[mudbunny]

You can be candid and diplomatic. You can say, "we didn't see much positive feedback about, say, the Plane of Vacuum, and so our plans for the future don't involve it." You don't have to say, "Of course, these planes don't hold a candle to 2E's hilarious Plane of Vacuum, which is truly the antithesis of fun."

Of course, when the developers *were* saying things like that, and being very diplomatic and PR-friendly, they were immediately bombarded with accusations of "not giving any useful information" and "talking like politicians."

 

[Hussar]

Minis combat is a central part of the game for some people, and it's an entirely forgettable add-on for others.

Likewise, the Plane of Vacuum was an important part of the game for some people, and entirely forgettable for others.

The designers should ideally in my view be supporting the way people do have fun, rather than making us all do what they think is fun.

I'm going to take a stab and say that the Plane of Vacuum was never a really important part of most D&D campaigns. I'd say all, but, I'm sure that someone, somewhere actually used it. OTOH, for anyone playing 4e, I doubt that the combat section is a forgetable add on.

 

[Umbran]

Be that as it may, there's a basic level of diplomacy that should be present if the developers are out talking up the new edition / game / system.

I agree. As I said - in most industries, the customer doesn't get to talk to the developer for this very reason. Developers typically don't have the skillset developed well enough that they don't occasionally suffer from foot-in-mouth disease.

But, you see, there's a rock and a hard place here. A large segment of the public seems to have really wanted the developers to talk. So, you got the result of that - which was a certain lack of diplomacy.

It was, in my opinion, a bit of an error. However, that error occurred more than three years ago. I also think it is time to stop belaboring that error.

Bottom line, I can -and do- expect developers to have basic diplomacy, even when giving me their unfiltered opinion.

It is fundamentally impossible to give "unfiltered" opinion with diplomacy. Diplomacy is the art of careful filtering.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Plane of VacuumTM - 'It Sucks!'

Plane of Dust - 'Look in the Plane of Vacuum'.

Negative Material PlaneTM - So, an electron walks into a bar, lookin' blue, and the bartender asks 'Why so negative?'

Sorry, I don't mind the Great Wheel cosmology, though a trifle Aristotlean for my tastes, but the puns were just sitting there....

The Auld Grump, Aristotle, Aristotle was a beggar for the bottle....