Beginners' Monster List

[steeldragons]

Keep it simple, with categories.

Kobolds (include vermin and monstrous vermin)
Goblins (include hobgoblins, bugbears, wolves, and other "wicked wildlife")
Orcs (lump together various "barbaric/evil/underdark humanoids" into this camp)
Giants (many different environments)
Undead (from skeletons to vampires to zombies to wraiths)
Faeries (Unseelie, mostly)
Demons / Devils (A quick sampling of the hundreds available should do ya fine)
"Bad Guys" (Bandits, Necromancers, Cultists and the like)
Elementals (all sorts!)
Dragons (all sorts!)
Aberrations (mind flayers, aboleths, all those tentacle slimy things)
Oozes (all sorts!)

Those are your "antagonists." You also need creatures that aren't antagonists for the party to interact with -- from "seelie fey" through to exotic mounts, angels, genies, allied humanoids, and good dragons. You get more leeway here, since D&D has been kind of blah about "allied monsters" since it began, but including them as alternative treasure is not a bad place to start.

Well put.

As for the basic races that are intended to be played as PCs (Dwarf, Elf, Human, maybe Part-Orc, Hobbit, Gnome), the write-ups for those races would be in the PH in the character-generation section, so no need to repeat 'em in the monster section. (this has always struck me as odd about the 1e MM, that it lists the kindred races as monsters and essentially repeats what's in the PH in the rolling-up chapter)

To your basic monster categories list I'd add:

Birds and Avians (from wrens to ravens to rocs)
Constructs (basic golem types, to show they exist)
Dinosaurs (optional in any campaign but essential to have in the MM)
Elementals (a basic write-up, to show they exist)
Marine Life (fish, whales, sharks, mermaids, etc.)
Normal Animals (the usual suspects; and 'wolves' would go here instead of with Goblins)

Lan-"take a walk on the wild side"-efan

Well, by this method, we very likely end up with more than 50 entries...unless we adjust the premise to be "50 categories" which I'm sure would be possible but overwhelming.

Are you making these suggestions with the thought to get more creatures crammed in or simply as an organizational preference?

Remember, the original point of this was to generate a diverse but workable chunk for a new DM to a game, not overwhelming waves of creatures within categories.

And what of the things that do not fit into any category? I would say you'd need at least 3 similar creatures to constitute a "category." Unless you make up things like "Winged Beasts" or "Mystical Mounts" or that sort of thing. But that's just me.

I'm not saying I am unwilling to sort the creatures out this way, simply that the idea of throwing every possible everything in the first beginning book of a starter set without consideration for the party level could be...too much.

To that point, KM, I really don't think things like Aberrations, or even Demons/Angels ("outsiders" in general beyond the basic elementals)...are something one needs to get into at the very beginning.

There's a whole world for the DM and Players to become acquainted with before they start plane-jumping (or are high enough level to start conjuring/summoning these guys)...and at, say 1st through 3rd...hell, even 5th or 6th level, how many Demons or Mindflayers do you think you'd survive?

Nah. IMHO, those kinda creatures are definitely for later (higher leveled) sets or separate monster "expansion" material.

As for including the PC races as "monsters"...I've heard it bothers people before, Lanefan, but I have never really understood why.

Yes, there is some overlap with the general race description. But I always thought of it just as human PCs are considered unique individuals "above and beyond" their communities so are dwarf, elf, gnome and halfling "adventurers."

The Monster section entries would be more for societal organization and beliefs. Maybe some cool tidbits for DMs to throw in when a party comes across an elf stronghold or a gnomish town. If we stat out a typical Human Bandit, why wouldn't we stat a typical roving Dwarf?

I also recall, in many modules, encountering groups of PC races as encounters (a dwarf warband on the march here, an elvin hunting party there). So, they kind of need to be statted out, don't they? Just like a group of goblins to be encountered in a raiding party or orcs or human bandits for that matter.

To use in play, since the potential for conflict/combat is probably very real, shouldn't there be a "generic dwarf guy" on the books? A "dime a dozen" elf to throw in? As a DM, I certainly wouldn't want to have to generate every individual halfling in a scouting party as a PC.

That's just my take on that...

But back to mulling over the categorization things...I would not want to add in more monsters, since the stated purpose is a manageable chunk of beasties for a DM to work with in a "starter kit." And with that in mind...we have to think/look ahead at the same time so that we're not "giving the whole thing away" at the get go...gotta save some tougher/expanding things for the next "expert" set.

Thoughts?
--Steel Dragons

 

[Anselyn]

But back to mulling over the categorization things...I would not want to add in more monsters, since the stated purpose is a manageable chunk of beasties for a DM to work with in a "starter kit." And with that in mind...we have to think/look ahead at the same time so that we're not "giving the whole thing away" at the get go...gotta save some tougher/expanding things for the next "expert" set.

Establish the categories to show the diversity of possibilities in the game and illustrate each category with a few (2-3) (double page spread?) for the starting point. It's then easy to see how to expand from that starting point.

Also, if you want modules to tun on/off in a campaign then you have a shoppingl ist of what to include. The "hybrids" I listed before a mostly obviously "mythological" if you want that hook. The puddings and oozes are D&D 70s gonzo that I can live without. (Also, being eaten by a black pudding has an odd resonance in the UK.)

 

[steeldragons]

Alright...so here...we have an attempt at utilizing the categories as suggested above...there are are few, mostly very common/basic creatures, that defy categories.

I did add in all 10 (5 chromatics, 5 metallics) dragons. Added in aquatic elves. But took Spectre and Vampire out of the undead listing...figuring they really are pretty tough critters for a starter kit.

Yes, I know. I know, dragons are tough critters too. But they're...well, they're dragons! Kinda have to have them in there.

Interesting that this breakdown actually gives us 101 individual entries! haha. (if I didn't miss anything/counting is correct)

Animals
1. Alligator: normal, crocodile, giant versions of each
2. Bat: normal/swarm, giant, mobat
3. Bear: black, cave, grizzly, polar
4. Boar: normal, giant, devil
5. Cat: domestic, lion, lynx, puma, sabertooth, tiger
6. Deer: stag, elk, moose
7. Dog: domestic, hunting/hound, guard/mastiff, wild
8. Dolphin: normal, telepathic
9. Elephant: normal, mammoth
10. Frog: giant, poisonous, toad/giant and poisonous
11. Furry Woodland Creature: Badger, Beaver, Ferret/Weasel, Fox, Otter, Rabbit/Hare, Squirrel (normal and giant versions of each, % chance to be intelligent/speaking.)
12. Herd Animal: antelope, bison, camel, cow, sheep, wildebeest, yak, zebra
13. Horse: draft, riding/light, war/heavy, wild
14. Rat: normal, giant, swarm
15. Shark: normal, giant
16. Snake: poisonous, constrictor, two-headed (normal and giant versions of each.)
17. Turtle: giant, giant snapping
18. Wolf: normal, giant, winter

Basilisk

Birds & Avian Creatures
1. Birds of Prey: eagle, falcon, hawk, owl, raven, vulture, (normal and giant versions of each, % chance to be intelligent/speaking.)
2. Griffon
3. Harpy
4. Pegusi

Constructs
1. Golem
1.1. Crystal
1.2. Flesh
1.3. Iron
1.4. Stone
1.5. Wood

Dragons
1. Red
2. Blue
3. Black
4. Green
5. White
6. Gold
7. Silver
8. Bronze
9. Copper
10. Brass

Dwarf
1. Hill
2. Mountain
3. Deep

Elemental
1. Air (medium, large and huge) and Sylphs
2. Earth (medium, large and huge) and Gnomes
3. Fire (medium, large and huge) and Salamanders
4. Water (medium, large and huge) and Undines

Elf
1. Aquatic
2. Grey
3. High
4. Wood
5. Dark

Faerie
1. Brownie
2. Pixie
3. Sprite

Giants
1. Hill
2. Frost
3. Stone
4. Wood (Ents/Treants)
5. Fire
6. Storm

Goblins/Goblinoids
1. Goblins
2. Hobgoblins
3. Bugbears

Humans
1. Bandit
2. Berserker/Barbarian
3. Cultist
4. Necromancer
5. Nomad/Tribesman
6. Thug

Insects
1. Ant: giant, giant fire
2. Beetle: giant fire, giant scarab, giant slicer
3. Scorpion: normal, giant
4. Spider: poisonous, bola, tarantulas, wolf, large and giant versions for each

Kobolds

Lycanthropes
1. Werecat (lion, tiger, panther)
2. Werebear
3. Wereboar
4. Wererat
5. Werewolf

Manticore

Medusa

Monstrous Vermin
1. Ankheg
2. Carrion Crawler
3. Rust Monster
4. Stirge

Ogre

Ooze
1. Gelatinous Cube
2. Green Slime
3. Grey Ooze

Orc

Sylvan Creatures
1. Centaur
2. Dryad
3. Unicorn

Troll


Umber Hulk


Undead
1. Shadow
2. Skeleton
3. Ghost
4. Ghoul
5. Wight
6. Wraith
7. Zombie

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I would start with defining essential categories and filling them with the most iconic choices that non-gamers would know, weighted toward lower levels for an introductory set, but with a smattering of higher level content for games that went to the highest possible level for the set, along with presenting the all-important "run away from high level threats" lesson.

Off the top of my head:

1) Evil humanoid raider (i.e. goblin, orc, ogre)
2) Dangerous normal animals (i.e. wolf, bear, snake)
3) Monstrous animals (i.e. dire rat, giant spider)
4) Folkloric monsters (i.e. chimera, hag)
5) Pop culture monsters (i.e. werewolf)
6) Undead (i.e. ghoul, skeleton, zombie)
7) Weird dungeon monsters (i.e. carrion crawler, owlbear)
8) Summoned monsters (i.e. earth elemental, a Type I demon)
9) A dragon (i.e. a red dragon)

That's 20, and would allow adventurers to encounters a good mix of monsters -- including a dragon in a dungeon, which really ought to be something they can get when they buy a box with both of those in the name -- with a note for the DM that player character races (I'd put humans, elves, dwarves and nothing else in the basic box) can serve as bandits and other antagonists and could, and arguably should be the primary antagonists in many games.

Absolutely stick it in the DM booklet, though. These guys should be surprises to newbie players -- I think most people remember the fun of figuring out what the hell it is they're facing, when everything is new. Preserving that for new gamers is important, IMO.

 

[Traveon Wyvernspur]

Here's a quick suggestion, instead of labeling things as "monsters" we could just go with "NPC's" since that's what they all are and the DM runs them no matter if they are humanoid, mystical, avian, insect, animal, etc. So it wouldn't be a "MM" it'd be an "NPCM" or NPC Manual and then we'd get away from the label of it being a Monster Manual or Bestiary.

I like all the ideas so far and it's a cool topic to discuss.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Why would you want to get away from it being a bestiary? Shouldn't it be evocative and exciting for the new players?

 

[Traveon Wyvernspur]

Why would you want to get away from it being a bestiary? Shouldn't it be evocative and exciting for the new players?

I'm just saying that not everything in the MM or bestiary is "beastly" or "monstrous" a lot of the creatures are very common and non-hostile. I'm actually thinking it might be nice to add in some generic BBEGs/villains/heroes to an NPC Manual which the DM could draw from.

To me the terms "monster" and "beast" do evoke the thoughts of the mystical/legendary monsters and beasts of lore, but it's not 100% accurate when you look through the books. Then if we want to get complicated we could do separate "splat" books for the different types of beasts/npc's/mystical creatures. Just my 2 coppers, because we all tend to "label" things even if inaccurate.

EDIT: Oh and yeah it should evoke the imagination, but if this is the stuff in the back of a DMG and not separate books, then just a nice section referenced as NPC's would be fine since the DM is looking at it and not the "players."

 

[Crazy Jerome]

If you are willing to put some things in a player book--even if no crunch--then I wouldn't get too caught up in making the categories for the players a 1-1 match with the information for the DM. There has to be some overlap, naturally, because it is a different slant on the same information. But there is nothing wrong with having "demi-humans" and "monstrous humanoids" as categories for a one or two-page spread each in the player book, and then being more nuanced and formal in the DM information.

I think we get so caught up in being "correct" with information for the DM, that we forget sometime that a lot of players are not going to absorb this information fully. And the ones that do need a few curveballs thrown at them, anyway. In fact, for player information, I'd go so far as to list blantantly mutually exclusive information in each entry.

 

[Lanefan]

On a design level, I wouldn't want to see a starter book if it meant you then had to go out and buy another book to get the rest. I'd far rather see all the classic monsters (i.e. everything that's been mentioned in this thread and about 100 more besides) in one book and have done with it, to avoid doing what 4e did by releasing them in dribs and drabs.

If there really has to be a second release, it can pick up all the oddball stuff not covered in the basic book (e.g. Modrons), can expand on some categories that really have no end (e.g. Demons, Undead), and can expand on some categories to add monsters from non-Western cultures (e.g. Oriental Dragons, Aztec monsters, etc.).

A couple of classics I've not yet seen mentioned, though I could have missed them:

Leprechauns (great opponents for low-level types - category: Faerie)
Githyanki / -zerai (the other end of the spectrum - category: their own)

Lanefan

 

[Traveon Wyvernspur]

Yeah [MENTION=29398]Lanefan[/MENTION] but like you said this is a "starter set" so these are mostly lower level type encounters, so in order to "expand" a bit you may want to put out more splat books for NPCs/monsters/beasts (especially if it's a business, you need to keep your fan base happy with new stuff). This could be for advanced players with more powerful monsters (i.e. MM3 in 4E).