Moster Manual priority

[chubbyloremaster]

Hi

While I was ordering my monster manual books I read some comments about how wizard got better and better with each manual thus I decided to go for the 3rd volume but as I recall from the 3rd ed, most familliar criters were always in the 1st volume. Could you please describe how the books differ from one another in terms of designe concept and which should I buy first including the 'monster vault' and the 'threats to the nentir valley'?

PS: I am unable to go to the local gaming shop and look at whats inside because there are no D&D 4E players or books in my town or probably even state.

 

[Mummolus]

The Monster Vault is what you'd want, if you're looking for familiar creatures with a "modern" approach.

MM1 and MM2 are both fine products, but they use different math than products from MM3 onwards - monsters in them are generally weaker and not nearly as interesting as they could be. MM3, Dark Sun Creature Catalogue, Monster Vault, and Threats to the Nentir Vale all take a different approach, which is both more interesting for the DM and provides more flavorful information to boot.

The Monster Vault is a finely balanced product. Threats to the Nentir Vale is similar, but focuses almost exclusively on Heroic tier and as such might not be as useful for all games.

 

[MortalPlague]

The Monster Vault is what you'd want, if you're looking for familiar creatures with a "modern" approach.

This. I own all the Monster Manuals, and I always look for something from "Monster Vault" or "Monster Manual 3" when I'm browsing the compendium. The monsters are more interesting and dangerous; they just make better foes.

 

[chubbyloremaster]

The Monster Vault is what you'd want, if you're looking for familiar creatures with a "modern" approach.

MM1 and MM2 are both fine products, but they use different math than products from MM3 onwards - monsters in them are generally weaker and not nearly as interesting as they could be. MM3, Dark Sun Creature Catalogue, Monster Vault, and Threats to the Nentir Vale all take a different approach, which is both more interesting for the DM and provides more flavorful information to boot.

The Monster Vault is a finely balanced product. Threats to the Nentir Vale is similar, but focuses almost exclusively on Heroic tier and as such might not be as useful for all games.

Bur what exactly is this modern aproach? The only thing I remember hearing from the D&D podcast is that MM3 is more classic than the rest.

 

[mudlock]

The "modern approach" is two things.

The first is easily quantifiable: hit points, defenses, damage, and attacks that better-track the same quantities in the PCs, so that equal-level threats are more consistently challenging (and so, more fun.) It's possible to apply these "math updates" to old monsters if you can't find an updated version in a newer book.

The second is less easily quantifiable. The monsters do their jobs better. Their signature moves reliably come into play. Their special powers are more dramatic and memorable. Sometimes this is as simple as having a soldier monster mark as an effect, rather than only as part of a hit. Sometime it's a lot more subtle, like in the numerous ways how dragons are now incredibly awesome and scary instead of just being big bags of hit points; you really have to see them in play side-by-side to appreciate it.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Yeah, that pretty much sums it up. There's nothing wrong with using an MM1 monster, but you can usually find a newer monster that is just more elegantly designed and provides a better experience. Given how easy it is to reskin and relevel monsters the truth is a lot of the minor variations you find in different books are handy but can be easily reproduced with better results basing off newer monsters.

I really don't crack open MM1 and MM2 much. If I do use such monsters I've long since applied tweaks to bring the ones I've needed up to modern standards. I won't say I'll NEVER use an old monster and it would be cool if they were all updated where needed, but 'bang for buck' MV and MM3 are pretty solid (I'd also add Demonomicon to this list, though some of the stuff in there isn't quite as polished as MM3 and beyond).

WotC has really gotten monster design down good now. I'd hope they will release an MV2 etc as they can to fill in some gaps with updates.

 

[Dice4Hire]

If I were buying I'd buy in this order: (Assuming all three tiers of play)

Monster Vault I
Monster Manual III
Dark Sun Creature Catalog
Monster Vault Nentir Vale
MMI
MMII

If you want mostly heroic monsters, put both Monster Vaults at the top.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Correction: Other than damage, there's nothing wrong with a non-Solo from the MM1 and MM2. Solos from the MM3 onwards are much more able to do their job and not simply get stunlocked by wandering controllers.

 

[Pseudopsyche]

In addition to the points already made, the newer monster books include much more fluff: story hooks and other inspiration for incorporating the monsters into actual adventures. For me there's no question that you should prioritize the newer books first, with the Monster Vault giving you coverage of "classic" monsters.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Correction: Other than damage, there's nothing wrong with a non-Solo from the MM1 and MM2. Solos from the MM3 onwards are much more able to do their job and not simply get stunlocked by wandering controllers.

I disagree about elites. Many MM1 elites are terrible. They have double the hit points but no extra attacks, and their defenses tend to be too high, too.