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In the PDF age all adventures should be compatible with all editions

Well I've designed my modules to reflect PF and OGL. Because the GSL limits me on new rules inclusion, as well as DDi won't put in 3pp rules, converting my product to 4e would be a big problem.

In my setting I've included things like a dueling mechanic, and another where other party members not in a duel can affect the outcome - I create all kinds of extra rules and tools to build a better experience for those using my Kaidan setting, making it especially unique.

For me to convert my rules to be more 4e appropriate would be cutting my product to the barebones and then it wouldn't be so interesting, or desireable by a potential customer.

Had I built a more bland adventure so it could easily encompass a wider ruleset, it would be a lesser product because of that.

Its a lot more than monster conversion - my game really can't convert to 4e, not easily, nor affordably.
 

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I think we're overestimating the problem. The process of converting 3.5 modules to C&C was "look up the monsters in the other book and replace them". That works for just about any of the systems I mentioned besides 4E, so once you've gotten to 3.5 you're pretty much home free. The translations don't have to be perfect, as the encounters hardly felt balanced anyway in AD&D

Agree.

Absolutely if you put five editions worth of stats on one page. That's why I suggested separate PDFs (again, just plug the numbers in and out) or 4-page addendums of notes on running in different editions.

Also agree.

The assumption here seems to be that the flavor is imbued in the edition, and converting the game to another edition would remove the flavor. Can you elaborate? This has not been my experience at all. I've found the flavor of the edition to be tied closely to the setting, art, and writing of the module itself, not the edition.

Also agree. Somewhat. Editions changes are generational changes, not just flavor text changes. See the point about the poisoned door below.

Sure you can! Like, really, why not? Absolutely nothing would stop me from running a 4E comsology in 2E or a Planescape Cosmology in 4E. The 4E Manual of the Planes actually suggests this if you like the old cosmology.

The only thing stopping you is time. And lots of it.

D20 Modern was basically 3.0 with some changes. The dimensional horror is a monster converted from Alternity, which could grab a PC and take them to the "ethereal plane". D20 Modern didn't have such a plane, so WotC had to reprint the entire ethereal plane rules in the monster statblock. While extensive, they just needed to copy the ethereal plane rules from the DMG1, so no real problem there.

Alas, that only worked because d20 Modern and DnD 3.0 had the same basic ruleset. In 4e, the ethereal and astral are the same plane, so you'd need to create a new set of rules to represent the "purely ethereal" plane, and that takes time. (Ethereal monsters like the filcher just teleport in 4e, from what I've seen.)

Perhaps, but I seem to recall every edition having rules for scaling monsters up/down. If WOTC asks players to do this it isn't too far-fetched to expect them to be able to do it as well?

Monsters can't really scale more than 5 levels in either direction in 4e, and it didn't even work properly in 3.x, especially 3.0. You'd be better off picking thematically similar monsters if the level difference is that great.

(When converting City by the Silt Sea to 4e, at a much lower level, I found myself designing 2e monsters from scratch, as the 3e and 4e variants were often so different from the 2e monster that I didn't want to use them as written. The green abishai's illusionary ability was key, for instance, and I don't believe the newer versions had that.)

Why not? As I said it'd be easier to convert new modules from 4E to 1E than vice versa, but yeah, you could do this if you wanted to maintain that 1E spirit.

That type of trap is bad writing, an unfun reactive trap that promotes PC paranoia. It's less an edition issue than a generational (and writing) issue. I wouldn't want to use such a trap now, even if it were written properly for 4e and "balanced".

You'd need to replace it to avoid player revolt... which means more time coming up with a cool encounter, rather than a lame one. You could have a fun one, I'm not denying that, it's just that you have to spend time on it.

You'd have similar issues with the number of encounters, "pointless" encounters and so forth.

But maybe there has been too much negativity. I would challenge you to prove us wrong. Take a free 1e to 3e adventure and convert that to 4e for us to see.
 


That type of trap is bad writing, an unfun reactive trap that promotes PC paranoia. It's less an edition issue than a generational (and writing) issue. I wouldn't want to use such a trap now, even if it were written properly for 4e and "balanced".
You would have to rewrite that. This is why it's easier to take new 4E products backwards than to take old products forward. I'd like to see 4E design applied to a 1E game.

Take a free 1e to 3e adventure and convert that to 4e for us to see.
Meh...that takes time.

Lets think about what would more realistically occur. New 4E modules would get backwards support before old modules would get updated forward. Try converting a 4E adventure to C&C or 3.5. I plan to do that in the near future with The Slaying Stone (on the fly). I can't imagine anything wouldn't hold up when playing with previous editions.

4E needs less pointless encounters, wider hallways, and interesting interactive terrain. All of those things that are integral to 4E encounters/adventure design are compatible with older editions.
 


This is like asking current game publishers to make copies of their games that work on the XBOX 360, Sega, NES and Atari 2600. All from the same CD.
 

It would be cool yes, but I'm not sure it's realistic or a profitable venture. For one, you still have to pay people to do all of those conversions between editions. Secondly, is it realistic to employ a staff that's knowledgeable in the fine details of multiple rulesets at once? I know I sure couldn't do much more than 3e/3.5/PF (having not played pre-3e) and even then I'd have to triple check to make sure I didn't blur the lines. And if you don't have that knowledge on staff, you'd have to hire freelancers just to do each edition's conversion. That gets expensive real quickly.

And certain things in some editions don't easily transfer as easily as changing out numbers. Take an adventure for 1/2/3e and if going to 4e sometimes you can't, because some monsters no longer exist, or are wholly different randomly, and there are some basic design assumptions that are radically changed to the point of it being impossible to do unless you make fundamental, in-depth changes to the point of rewriting the thing to do the conversion. Again, it's an expensive and daunting proposition.

But if folks want to do such things out of the kindness of their hearts and offer the conversions to others, they're awesome people. :)
 

Secondly, is it realistic to employ a staff that's knowledgeable in the fine details of multiple rulesets at once?

If little Frog God Games can do both a Swords & Wizardry and Pathfinder version of many of their adventures, this should be easily do-able by WotC.

All you need are content experts - those responsible for a particular edition. Heck, you don't even need them on staff - you can contract them on a freelance basis.

I think it's a great idea.

When Necromancer Games was going 4E, they were originally going to have 4E versions of some of their adventures with a 3.5 download. It would have been the only way it would have gotten me to buy a 4E product. It would have been a fantastic opportunity to introduce 4E to those reluctant to switch to the new rules system. (If WotC had done it with their own adventures, they could have put little sidebars in highlighting the benefits of the new system - without insulting the old system - that might attract a 3.5 player to 4E. It's a marketing opportunity.)
 

It would be cool yes, but I'm not sure it's realistic or a profitable venture. For one, you still have to pay people to do all of those conversions between editions. Secondly, is it realistic to employ a staff that's knowledgeable in the fine details of multiple rulesets at once? I know I sure couldn't do much more than 3e/3.5/PF (having not played pre-3e) and even then I'd have to triple check to make sure I didn't blur the lines. And if you don't have that knowledge on staff, you'd have to hire freelancers just to do each edition's conversion. That gets expensive real quickly.

I agree. A fan made conversion is one thing, people are a little more forgiving with inaccuracies and such because it was done by the fans. But in a purchasable product there needs to be accuracy and accuracy takes time and attention to detail. Time and attention to detail costs money. Either in hiring people to do the conversion that can do it accurately or in a delay in getting the next new product out because the time to release a module just went up.

There are even some Pathfinder Society scenarios out there that just going from 3.5 to Pathfinder get a few encounters that go sideways because of the subtle difference in creatures between versions.

Now for me to do conversions in my home game I can just wing it. I can adjust on the fly or if I realize the Pathfinder creature is much tougher than the old 1e version I can just adjust HP down or damage down on the fly. But in published products the person buying it is expecting it to be right and not having to do this on the fly.
 


Into the Woods

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