Bad DMs/GMs

[Hussar]

When people say I don't want my DM to roll behind the screen because I don't want him to fudge that is a trust issue. Because you don't trust him not to fudge.

There are lot of reasons a DM uses a screen besides fudging he may use it for the info on it or to hide his notes or hide certain rolls that have nothing to do with combat.

If your agreement is to let all rolls stand then it shouldn't matter where the DM rolls.

Look each group has to decide for their own group and if the DM and players want to roll in the open that is fine. What I have taken from a lot of posts I have read on this over the years is the attitude that if you roll behind a screen it is because you are fudging. That is what bugs me that and the attitude that some how letting the dice fall as they will is the correct way to play DnD and if you don't you are not really playing DnD the way it was meant to be played.

Oh, I have no problem if you want to play behind the screen. I just don't see the need for it personally. If you're not going to fudge, then why roll behind the screen? The only reason for the DM to hide rolls is to fudge rolls.

I don't enjoy games where the die rolls are fudged. It's not a trust issue at all. I KNOW that the DM is going to fudge hidden rolls. That's the whole point of hiding rolls (other than maybe rolls where knowing the result ruins play - such as searching for traps).

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Not my preferred style of play, but, certainly one I've seen done and seen done well. On purely practical level, I roll in the open because it's faster. The players know automatically if something is a success or not, so, they can move on without the step of me telling them anything, by and large.

It tends to keep the pace of the game a bit higher, again, IMO. Which, again, IMO, is a good thing.

 

[Elf Witch]

Oh, I have no problem if you want to play behind the screen. I just don't see the need for it personally. If you're not going to fudge, then why roll behind the screen? The only reason for the DM to hide rolls is to fudge rolls.

That is what bugs me right there this comment. Because there are reasons to roll behind a screen other then fudging. But you see that is the lack of trust I am talking about.

I keep a screen up to hide my notes and for quick reference of certain rules. For me to roll in the open means I have to stand up every time we are in combat. I broke my back in December and that is to painful for me.

My roommate who does not fudge rolls behind the screen because she finds it more convenient not to have to move her stuff to make room she also likes to keep certain rolls on skill checks secret from the players. So for her to roll combat rolls in the open would mean moving her stuff and she finds that to much work.

Anyway I think we have gone around in circles on this topic. I don't have an issue with people who want to roll in the open if that is how the group wants to play, but it is the same for people who do want to roll behind the screen.

 

[Summer-Knight925]

Fudging dice is...for me...not really a problem, the few times I do it are not to hurt or aid the party but because i didn't like the random treasure we got or it made no sense for it to be there (Why is there a flying broom in the sunken temple?)

I do; however, do it out of combat, but more or less fudge the DC for the actual roll, like.....for a diplomacy check, if the guy is not quite friendly but not indifferent, i go inbetween, I don't consider it fudging.
Or if the PCs need to find the map on a guy and they say "we search him" and don't make search checks (which is fine with me) then I say "you found a map!"

However, changing the dice is cheating. The DM may be all powerful, but cheating is still cheating. If you don't let the dice lie, why not just pick the number?

 

[Hussar]

Elf Witch - ah, well, broken back is certainly a pretty decent reason. Note, I didn't say anything about not playing with a DM's screen. I got no problem with that.

And, you're bringing up fairly corner case examples. I don't know where your friend plays that she'd have to "move stuff" in order to roll in the open. I mean, how hard is it to lay your DM's screen down?

Then again, at the tabletop, we usually played standing up a lot as well because we used minis.

Now, I would like to curse the heck out of the guy who thinks it's great to roll like he's shooting craps and play ten pin bowling with a d20 and my nicely painted figs at the same time. GRRR. That guy needs to be kicked in the dice bag.

 

[The Shaman]

Fudging dice is...for me...not really a problem, the few times I do it are not to hurt or aid the party but because i didn't like the random treasure we got or it made no sense for it to be there (Why is there a flying broom in the sunken temple?)

And that's exactly why I don't like fudging the dice: why IS there a flying broom in the sunken temple? What's its story? Who brought it there, and when, and why? Why was it left there?

This is a part of what makes roleplaying games a unique entertainment for me.

 

[The Shaman]

That guy needs to be kicked in the dice bag.

 

[pemerton]

And that's exactly why I don't like fudging the dice: why IS there a flying broom in the sunken temple? What's its story? Who brought it there, and when, and why? Why was it left there?

This is a part of what makes roleplaying games a unique entertainment for me.

I find the way you play, and use the random rolls to drive story, "coincidences", etc, an interesting one. I'm sure I could enjoy it, too, although it's quite a way from my default approach.

But I don't think it's inherent in what it means to play D&D, nor part of the implicit social contract when someone says "play D&D". The last few times I played in an AD&D campaign the GMs were definitely not using the random rolls in the way that Gygaxian norms would dictate, but even when from time to time those games weren't all that good I wouldn't say there was any breach of social contract. D&D has always been a pretty big tent, and nothing that Bullgrit has described seems to me to be stepping out of it.

 

[Elf Witch]

However, changing the dice is cheating. The DM may be all powerful, but cheating is still cheating. If you don't let the dice lie, why not just pick the number?

Not to sound like a broken record but it is not cheating if the group agrees that it is okay for the DM to fudge if they feel it is necessary.

It is kind of offensive to me to be basically labeled a cheater for running a game the way my players and I have agreed on.

Not even the DMGs say don't ever fudge. They advise that if you are going to do it do it sparingly and to get a consensus from your players.

Now if your players expect the dice roll to always stand no matter the circumstances then yes and a DM does not then that is cheating.

 

[Elf Witch]

Elf Witch - ah, well, broken back is certainly a pretty decent reason. Note, I didn't say anything about not playing with a DM's screen. I got no problem with that.

And, you're bringing up fairly corner case examples. I don't know where your friend plays that she'd have to "move stuff" in order to roll in the open. I mean, how hard is it to lay your DM's screen down?

Then again, at the tabletop, we usually played standing up a lot as well because we used minis.

Now, I would like to curse the heck out of the guy who thinks it's great to roll like he's shooting craps and play ten pin bowling with a d20 and my nicely painted figs at the same time. GRRR. That guy needs to be kicked in the dice bag.

Where she runs her game we don't have access to a table so we all use TV trays. We don't use minis either because we don't have the room. She has a map on graph paper and we pass it around it get an idea of the layout. It is kind of a pain but you got adapt to your situation.

I am lucky my game is played where we do have a table and a battlemat. Though I can't draw on it because I can't bend so I have a DMs helper who draws on it from my sketch on graph paper.

And we have a player who uses these gigantic dice that have been known to take out everything in its path. It reminds one of the giant round stone in the first Indiana Jones movie.


Before I hurt my back I would sometimes roll some things in the open for dramatic effect.

I know my examples are not common but I just wanted to say that yes there are reasons besides fudging to roll behind a screen.

 

[Summer-Knight925]

And that's exactly why I don't like fudging the dice: why IS there a flying broom in the sunken temple? What's its story? Who brought it there, and when, and why? Why was it left there?

This is a part of what makes roleplaying games a unique entertainment for me.

It was a bad example, and sure it adds flavor and all, but no one in the group would want a flying broom, I know my players, theyd just sell it.

Something else I tend to be against is the large magic market, makes finding things kind of unfun, at least IMO