Take the Narrative Wounding Challenge.

[Hungry Like The Wolf]

Not according to the phb. Healing surges can be spent in an instant through second wind or you can spend as many as you want with a short rest (which is five minutes). That is very different from taking a full day to get a chunk of hp back.

The mental gymnastics come in for me when people argue for healing surges as another kind of hp and so forth.

I am not refusing to listen to your argument or anything but, like you, I have a strong opinion on the subject and have had a good deal of time to think about it. You made a strong case and I explained why It doesn't persuade me. Like I said we disagree and that is totally cool.

What the phb says doesn't stop you from making it a day in narrative, if that's your thing. That's not mental gymnastics, it's very simple. I fine it hard to believe you haven't done similar things with any game you've played and thought nothing of it.

My opinion isn't strong but I get what you mean and I must admit you haven't really said anything too valid in criticism, so I guess we'll never see eye to eye.

 

[Imaro]

What the phb says doesn't stop you from making it a day in narrative, if that's your thing. That's not mental gymnastics, it's very simple. I fine it hard to believe you haven't done similar things with any game you've played and thought nothing of it.

My opinion isn't strong but I get what you mean and I must admit you haven't really said anything too valid in criticism, so I guess we'll never see eye to eye.

Wait, so your whole argument for healing surges is that you can house rule them... Huh?? You can houserule anything that's beside the point when discussing the pros and cons of the actual mechanic and how it has been implemented into the game.

 

[Hungry Like The Wolf]

Wait, so your whole argument for healing surges is that you can house rule them... Huh?? You can houserule anything that's beside the point when discussing the pros and cons of the actual mechanic and how it has been implemented into the game.

No, my whole argument is that there are no narrative differences between healing surges and other kinds of healing.

 

[Imaro]

No, my whole argument is that there are no narrative differences between healing surges and other kinds of healing.

Yeah, as long as you houserule how they work there isn't.

Again there are rules concerning the amount of time it takes to regain and use healing surges. These are in game rules that in fact shape the narrative because they have an in-game timeframe that is explicitely connected to the narrative (both short rests and extended rests have rules that are tied to the narrative of the game). If you change the narrative surrounding the timeframe in which these things happen... you are houseruling the rules for healing surges as well.

So your argument seems to be just change the rules so that they behave like any other form of healing and then they are no different from any other form of healing...

 

[Hungry Like The Wolf]

Yeah, as long as you houserule how they work there isn't.

Yeah because it ~totally~ changes the mechanics.

Again there are rules concerning the amount of time it takes to regain and use healing surges. These are in game rules that in fact shape the narrative because they have an in-game timeframe that is explicitely connected to the narrative (both short rests and extended rests have rules that are tied to the narrative of the game). If you change the narrative surrounding the timeframe in which these things happen... you are houseruling the rules for healing surges as well.

I fail the see how changing the narrative changes how healing surges work. So, I fail to see how I'm suggesting a houserule for healing surges.

What you just presented is a houserule for short rests and extended rests, in which case that's pretty irrelevant and unintentional on my part.

So your argument seems to be just change the rules so that they behave like any other form of healing and then they are no different from any other form of healing...

No, my argument is simply, they are no different from any other form of healing.

 

[Bedrockgames]

What the phb says doesn't stop you from making it a day in narrative, if that's your thing. That's not mental gymnastics, it's very simple. I fine it hard to believe you haven't done similar things with any game you've played and thought nothing of it.

Sure you can always alter the RAW to suit taste. But if you tweak ot so it becomes 3e healing it isn't really a healing surge anymore. I never said that homebrewing involved mental gymnastic; i said some explanations of what healing surges are do.

I have made tweaks to games but nothing as drastic as turning a healimg surge into 3e healing. I suppose I could do all kinds of things to 4e to meet my preference, but at that point I would have a different game.

 

[Imaro]

Yeah because it ~totally~ changes the mechanics.

It does and no amount of "squiggly line = sarcasm" changes that fact. In fact I almost see this as the last resort of someone who knows they're wrong but won't admit it... using sarcasm and not addressing the issue that is.

I fail the see how changing the narrative changes how healing surges work. So, I fail to see how I'm suggesting a houserule for healing surges.

Just because you fail to see it doesn't mean you aren't doing it. My 4e PHB gives specific rules on when and how healing surges can be used and are regained... changing any of those rules (including the timeframe for their acquisition) is houseruling healing surges. Not sure why you fail to see it as it seems to be (IMO, at least) a fairly simple concept to grasp.

What you just presented is a houserule for short rests and extended rests, in which case that's pretty irrelevant and unintentional on my part.

Oh, okay now I get it. Rather than admit you are houseruling healing surges you would rather use semantics to try and wiggle out of just admitting it. This seems like a pretty disingenuous way to discuss things.

No, my argument is simply, they are no different from any other form of healing.

And your argument, unlike most things we discuss about gaming is objectively wrong.

 

[Hungry Like The Wolf]

Sure you can always alter the RAW to suit taste. But if you tweak ot so it becomes 3e healing it isn't really a healing surge anymore. I never said that homebrewing involved mental gymnastic; i said some explanations of what healing surges are do.

I have made tweaks to games but nothing as drastic as turning a healimg surge into 3e healing. I suppose I could do all kinds of things to 4e to meet my preference, but at that point I would have a different game.

Why isn't it a healing surge anymore? I haven't suggested any changes to them.

 

[Hungry Like The Wolf]

It does and no amount of "squiggly line = sarcasm" changes that fact. In fact I almost see this as the last resort of someone who knows they're wrong but won't admit it... using sarcasm and not addressing the issue that is.

Okay. It still doesn't change the fact that healing surges have not changed.

Just because you fail to see it doesn't mean you aren't doing it. My 4e PHB gives specific rules on when and how healing surges can be used and are regained... changing any of those rules (including the timeframe for their acquisition) is houseruling healing surges. Not sure why you fail to see it as it seems to be (IMO, at least) a fairly simple concept to grasp.

I haven't said anything about changing how and when healing surges can be used or regained. I already said, I unintentionally suggested a change to extended rests and short rests. Which is unintentional because I'm specifically trying to keep this about healing surges.

Oh, okay now I get it. Rather than admit you are houseruling healing surges you would rather use semantics to try and wiggle out of just admitting it. This seems like a pretty disingenuous way to discuss things.

Wiggle? I've been pretty explicit and forthcoming with my intentions.

And your argument, unlike most things we discuss about gaming is objectively wrong.

Okay player.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Why isn't it a healing surge anymore? I haven't suggested any changes to them.

I could be wrong but I believe you suggested changing the timeframe. For healing surges to be believable for me they would at least need to take a day (minimum). That is a major change since the whole point of them is to give players access to easy and quick healing.