In what other games is fudging acceptable?

[DEFCON 1]

Why roll? Pick the result most suitable from among the choices and go with it.

Because there are seven other choices that can still be selected randomly. Duh.

For whatever reason, you seem to believe that the second one choice is removed from the table it therefore means every other choice might as well be pre-determined to the best condition possible. Most of us do not feel the need to go to that extreme. Not by a longshot.

If you have 10 outcomes from best to worst and the DM chooses to remove selection 1 & 10 as being outside the bounds of workable in the current situation the party finds itself in... that does not lessen the importance or impact of choices 2 through 9.

 

[enrious]

How is this not simply a matter of deciding on odds of various possibilities before rolling? Degree of success or failure is a valid value to determine.

Easy.

Letting the characters have a shot at the result of 1-7 and if the dice don't favor randomly pick one of those options, then picking what the DM would think is the most entertaining option (if the 8 is rolled).

Otherwise, why have a DM?

If it were all the mere odds of possibility, why not ditch the books and everyone have a LAN party?

Again, bifurication fallacy - the notion that either you must always use the odds of possibility OR you must always go by what the DM wants to do anyway.

Why roll? Pick the result most suitable from among the choices and go with it.

See above. Sometimes there isn't a "most suitable" result, as "most suitable" is such a nebulous term in this context as to be worthless as a defining term.

 

[DEFCON 1]

For me this would actually reduce my overall level of fun, even if it was done to save me from a brief moment of frustration.

That's your right. But by the same token, if a player dies within the first 30 minutes of what is supposed to be an all-day game session, and there's no place to introduce a new PC until like seven hours in... there will also be plenty of players who would not find having to wait all that time as being 'fun'. Because that's no longer a 'brief moment of frustration'.

 

[ExploderWizard]

If you have 10 outcomes from best to worst and the DM chooses to remove selection 1 & 10 as being outside the bounds of workable in the current situation the party finds itself in... that does not lessen the importance or impact of choices 2 through 9.

Agreed. This is determining the possibilities & the odds. The other example made it sound like choice 8 was left valid then ignored.

In this example a 1 could be used as a proxy for pick 2-5 and 10 used for pick 6-9.

 

[enrious]

Agreed. This is determining the possibilities & the odds. The other example made it sound like choice 8 was left valid then ignored.

In this example a 1 could be used as a proxy for pick 2-5 and 10 used for pick 6-9.

And what if choice 8 was valid and ignored? The DM determines at that moment that it wouldn't be appropriate, for whatever reason and fudges to one of the other 7.

 

[ExploderWizard]

And what if choice 8 was valid and ignored? The DM determines at that moment that it wouldn't be appropriate, for whatever reason and fudges to one of the other 7.

Then the roll was simply a waste of time and energy.

 

[enrious]

Then the roll was simply a waste of time and energy.

Too bad the DM didn't know that the dice result wasn't going to be 1-7 ahead of time or didn't think the 8 result would really happen and so they didn't waste time with a slide-rule or calculator determining the optimal odds probability to assign in order to make one perfect die roll.

 

[Umbran]

Then the roll was simply a waste of time and energy.

Oh my goodness! I've wasted... all of a second of time and the energy required to pick up and roll a die!

If the time and energy are actually the issue, then you're probably making a common error of logic in risk assessment: prevention is not necessarily cheaper than correction. The effort to avoid an undesired outcome is not always less than just dealing with that outcome when it arises. Sometimes, it is faster, cheaper, and easier just to deal with issues when they arise.

I roll dice many times. In practice, I have to fudge on very few rolls, and doing so is very quick. The time I'd have to spend considering beforehand over the course of my campaign is greater than the time I'd "waste" in those small number of extra die rolls. In this case, correction is apt to be cheaper than prevention, and it does not profit me, or my players, for me to try to prevent.

 

[S'mon]

I don't think any of us have said there is *no* chance of getting knocked out of play, or of guarantees. Saying they might fudge one die roll to prevent character death at one particular point does not say they *never* allow PC death.

How do you fudgers decide when to fudge to save a PC, and when to let him/her die?

 

[Wild Gazebo]

I'll not speak for everyone; but, personally, I tend to let the chips fall where they may in climactic battles...in tense or exciting situations. Death can be such a great part of a game where the characters are talked about after the fact...and can even spur more adventure plots.

I've definitely fudged a few points of damage on small skirmishes to create critically injured or unconscious characters that have to be dealt with as difficulties to be overcome on the way toward a climactic task. A hurdle that lends to the perceived struggle toward a shared goal.

I find it more satisfying to play with the sense of emotion and excitement in encounters as opposed to the straight math of the situation.

Part of my personal play-style has a lot more to do with the ebb and flow of the encounters...like pacing in a novel. If I feel that something will stop the game dead in its tracks (in a bad way: note this can be used sparingly in a wonderfully poignant fashion as well) I will steer the results to something more progressive to the feel of the game.

Keep in mind: I never tell any of my players when, if, or why I fudge these rolls. They are all accomplished adults--and friends--and I feel they would not be surprised or offended by my actions.