The Template arguement.

[Dannyalcatraz]

Too often it is an attempt to gain an advantageous character (even if covered up by an 'interesting backstory' - not that I'm saying you're doing that).

In my experience, templates make fighter types overpowered and casters underpowered, because of the level adjustment. Without any level adjustment then all bets are off though!

I always wanted to do a Feral Sorcerer (or Stalwart/Battle Sorcerer) with INA and a bunch of Touch & Transmutation spells... Maybe even Arcane Strike & Draconic heritage to boot.

Alas, I'm the only guy in my group who has basically approved templates...and I'm not running a game anytime soon.

 

[SkredlitheOgre]

As stated above, I use templates for monsters, but I don't see the need for templates for characters, unless everyone in the party and the DM agree that everyone is getting a template and everyone is paying the LA cost. Or if someone is joining a higher level party at 1st level and they wanted to use a template to 'catch up.'

As far as your 'trapped in a suit of armor' thing, why not just make a Fighter, slap him into a suit of plate mail, and say that he's 'cursed' so that he can never take that armor off? Doesn't require a template but you get to keep the backstory. Really the only downside would be the penalty you take for sleeping in armor, but that doesn't really sound like an issue for your DM.

 

[jefgorbach]

Cursed Armor of Comfort.
Meets your desired theme without incurring the cumulative(?) sleeping penalty

 

[Dice4Hire]

I am not a fan of templates, as it always seems (for some strange reason) players gravitate towards 3 or 4 of the most undercosted ones) and then want to use LA buyoff to avoid any payment for the extra power.

Yes, they can add something to the character, but I fail to see why it has to be so much mechanical benefit when a bit of fluff can do the same without the huge powerup.

 

[Naoki00_]

As far as your 'trapped in a suit of armor' thing, why not just make a Fighter, slap him into a suit of plate mail, and say that he's 'cursed' so that he can never take that armor off? Doesn't require a template but you get to keep the backstory. Really the only downside would be the penalty you take for sleeping in armor, but that doesn't really sound like an issue for your DM.

well theres a homebrew feat called "black Knight" on a wiki for DnD that were allowed to use, long story short, you get a masterwork full plate or free, but can never remove it, but you take no negatives for sleeping/climbing/swimming in it and enchanting it costs half the price (not something we really care about since in our group magic is NOT something we enjoy on our fighter/knights). As for the advice yeah it would work but...it's a little uninspired, how is it dramatic or engaging? normally combat isn't he bread and butter of our games but the role playing and characterization.

 

[SkredlitheOgre]

so a human fighter doesn't cut it. A fighter that used to be human but is trapped eternally in a suit of armor in the body of his clans most hated enemy? thats the ticket.

As far as your 'trapped in a suit of armor' thing, why not just make a Fighter, slap him into a suit of plate mail, and say that he's 'cursed' so that he can never take that armor off? Doesn't require a template but you get to keep the backstory. Really the only downside would be the penalty you take for sleeping in armor, but that doesn't really sound like an issue for your DM.

well theres a homebrew feat called "black Knight" on a wiki for DnD that were allowed to use, long story short, you get a masterwork full plate or free, but can never remove it, but you take no negatives for sleeping/climbing/swimming in it and enchanting it costs half the price (not something we really care about since in our group magic is NOT something we enjoy on our fighter/knights). As for the advice yeah it would work but...it's a little uninspired, how is it dramatic or engaging? normally combat isn't he bread and butter of our games but the role playing and characterization.

And my first question would be: what's the difference between your initial post and my initial response, other than I didn't use templates? The character is trapped in a suit of armor, which sounds like exactly what you going for. To me, anyway, that can and should lead to a lot of roleplaying possibilities without needing to add some other abilities on top of it, which you would most likely get from a template.

If nothing else, because the character is cursed to stay in the armor forever, side plots could be attempting various means to break the curse, which you could set up with the DM to not work because of something or other.

Secondly, how is that not dramatic or engaging? Your party is invited to the King's court, but all weapons and armor must be removed. Well, that could be a problem. Unless you roleplay it with the King or the King's Captain of the Guard. Image the look on that guy's face when you raise your visor and there's nothing inside! Except there is!

CotG: SORCERY! Prepare the gallows!

Party: NO! No no no! A curse! He/I has/have been cursed by a Trogdorian (your hated enemy) witch to forever remain in this suit of armor!

CotG: Hm. Well. That changes things. WITCHCRAFT! Prepare the gallows!

Party: *collective headslap* No! HE'S not the witch! He was cursed BY the witch!

So on and so forth. The King's Minister or Pope or Head Cleric or what have you is brought in and finally, YES, it is determined that you are indeed cursed and are NOT a Sorcerer or a Wtich. But THEN any Sorcerers or Witches (arcane spellcasters in general) in your party are offended, because APPARENTLY THESE PEOPLE ARE IDIOTS and think that Magic = Bad! Well, there's ANOTHER set of roleplaying possibilities.

If I were to go this route, I would honestly take the penalties from essentially 'being' a suit of armor because that, too, can lead to good roleplaying. Rolling badly during an encounter? Blame your character's performance on not sleeping well because he's not really 'human' anymore. Rolling well? 'Gee, not having a body to worry about makes things a lot easier!'

Or, if the 'character' is just the animating force of the armor (but you still use the character's stats for everything), think about all the things someone used to having a body would miss! Food! Drink! Sleep! Sex! Sensory deprivation can add a whole other level to your roleplaying. "I think out of all of the things I miss from having a body, I miss pork chops the most."

Just because there are no templates involved doesn't mean roleplaying is out the window. In my PF game, I'm running an Elven Monk who was captured by Drow and learned their 'Spider Style' of martial arts. As everyone in my group (except me) has studied various forms of kung fu, it was fun for us to take a few minutes to figure out how that style would work (lots of pressure point attacks and grappling). That right there gives me something to roleplay with. If someone comes up and is talking to us and wonders why the Elf is staring at him, it's because I'm studying that person's pressure points based on what they're wearing.

He also has a hatred of Drow, which was interesting roleplaying when my DM changed one of the NPCs in the adventure path we're running into a Drow specifically for that reason. I ended up not killing her. Just roughed her up a bit when she got uppity.

The opportunity to roleplay is there, even if the templates aren't, is all I'm really trying to say.

 

[Naoki00_]

well, I should first apologize if i seemed to be putting your suggestion down, it's just when i think "fighter" I conjure up a pretty generic image.

Your example though is pretty brilliant, I don't think we'll be running into something like it, but it would be great if it did happen heh. Thankfully her armor has Glamored on it, so it can appear to be normal clothing. Really though she not so much just 'sealed in a can' so much as she has to be. She was 'reborn' by a devil into the body of her ancestor, who is very much dead. to add insult to injury only the head and face was revived, the rest is nothing but a skeleton encased in the armor that acts as skin, which is pretty much the undead template to a tee.

The characters main characterization revolves around her opinions of the living and her eventual redemption thanks to the party and their adventures (with some twists, seeing as another players backstory and hers are connected in odd ways)..and while being stuck in armor sucks, it's still something other people could relate too, while being dead adding to that isn't something most people wouldn't be able to say "oh, thats bad but look at it like this", though you did give some pretty (read that again- brilliant) ways of role playing it still, a mental tick keeps making me say "sooo it's an undead, but it's not because it doesn't have the template?"

Perhaps I'm just a bit odd in my idea of what makes things more interesting lol. as I said though i love the above example.