Long post by new member is long

[halfcore]

So yes, hi!

I’m not exactly new to the forum, I’ve been lurking for more than a year here now, reading the various topics and learning about your weaknesses and such, so I thought it was finally time to make an account and post a topic of my own and who knows, maybe even contribute with posts and replies in other topics. (I know, crazy, right?)

EDIT: I just noticed that I might have put this in the wrong part of the forum, haha. I only frequent the Legacy part of the forum though, so that's why. Apologies if this is wrong!

Anyway. Here’s the sitch: I’m running a game that’s been going on for about 10 years now. Me and my group, we don’t do “campaigns” as such, there’s no one big story arc to resolve and end the game, but rather we run a lot of story arcs together in a massive sandbox world.

At the moment the player characters are the rulers of their own “country”, a vast domain that they own, given to them (for a certain value of “giving”) as a reward by the emperor of the enormous continent that they’re located on. This continent has been at war with the other (connected) continent of this world for years now, but this war is about to end by the (probable) death of their emperor.

Now, the player characters are wealthy beyond belief, they haven’t had to “work” for their money for ages, after finding some ludicrously big money pile some years ago. (This was a story arc by my predecessor DM, the one who led the campaign before me some 10 years ago.) I’ve never really felt up to taking that money away from them, never needed to do anything about it (for one thing, they use it incredibly sparingly, despite it running into the billions), until now… They’re finally starting their own businesses and setting up deals and trades, and it’s just kind of lame the way they don’t even need to think about how much something costs. The war makes everything pretty expensive and they barely gulp when I mention the price of something. (Well, unless something costs millions, then yeah…) So I want to return them to a state of semi-poverty where they really need to think about where their next coin is going to come from. I’ve been wanting to do this for a while, and here’s how my thought process/plan goes:

Like I said, the war is ending soonish (as per my DM-future vision) with the demise of the emperor of their continent (which the PC’s are actually helping to happen), the different factions will break apart, squabble amongst each other, steal, murder, all that good stuff. The other continent’s armies are going to swoop in and start defeating the disbanded alliance, etc etc… not really important.

My question, yes I have one, is about the currency. There are two continents, both have different currencies. If the other continent defeats the one continent, breaks it as it were, what happens to the defeated continent’s currency? It’s probably good to know that both currencies are not made out of any valuable metals or anything like gold or platinum. In fact, most of the money is invisible, like in this world, with a complicated system of bank notes and balances. The money is just “there”, but not tangible unless specifically withdrawn (in which case it could be gold).

So, does the defeated continent’s currency:
1) Collapse and become worthless?
2) Devaluate to some percentage of its previous worth as it transitions to the new continent’s currency?
3) Stay about the same with a 1 for 1 changeover?

Phew, this was long. My apologies for that! I do tend to ramble on.

TL;DR – What happens to the currency of a defeated enemy nation?

 

[kitcik]

"When the Confederacy ceased to exist as a political entity at the end of the war, the money lost all value as fiat currency."

 

[Eldritch_Lord]

What happens to a nation's currency after defeat depends on what happens to the nation. The value of a fiat currency is based upon the strength of the nation's economy and the trust in the nation's government to back it. (This is a vast simplification, of course, but it's close enough.) So the value of the currency is really up to you to determine based upon the outcome of the war:

If, when defeated, the nation essentially goes on about its daily business except they're no longer sustaining a wartime economy, there will likely be some devaluation of the currency, but if it was relatively strong beforehand the drop shouldn't be too bad.

If, when defeated, the nation is occupied by the victors but they continue to use their own currency, it will likely see a rapid decline in value thanks to the government losing its tax income, the occupiers taking money to compensate for their war efforts, the users no longer being able to trust the government or the economy to work out as expected (since the occupying force can screw with those things, taking the money in the case of the government or controlling what is produced in the case of the economy), and so forth. Think of the East German economy after World War 2: with the Soviets in charge, inflation spiked, the economy came under their control, and things generally sucked.

If, when defeated, the nation is occupied by the victors and adopt the victor's currency, the nation's own currency will either become basically worthless or merely drastically drop in value, depending on how thoroughly they're occupied. Think of the Confederacy after the US Civil War: Without a country to back it or spend it in, the currency is useless.

Usual disclaimer, not an economist, etc. Hope this helps.

 

[ahayford]

Wow...I thought this was a spam post at first. Did anyone else read the post title as

"Long post my new member is long"

 

[Meatboy]

If they are on the losing side of the war you could have the winners "appropriate" their assets to help pay for the war. Even if they use a fiat currency all currencies are backed with some kind of real world asset. So just have that vanish and their money becomes useless.

Even if they are on the winning side you could have the Emperor increase taxes on the wealthy and just take most of their money that is banked and tell them "tough luck we are fighting a war and all need to pitch in"

You could even have some banker "misplace" all their money and move away to non extradition country where he uses their vast wealth to live in luxury and buy protection against any retaliation they might plan.

 

[halfcore]

Currently they are living on the continent that's on the winning side, but they're trying to subtly undermine everything so that their side loses. The other continent doesn't really trust them yet, so they're not likely to gain any special favors once everything turns south. And south it will turn as soon as the emperor croaks. Which is likely to happen with the PC's meddling.

Thanks for the history lessons, guys! I was never very good with the economy side of everything, but I like to run a bit of a realistic story. Of the three choices Eldritch_Lord suggested, the second one seems most likely, as the central government branches will cease to exist and the nation falls, there will be pocket nations led by whoever is the strongest in their region, but it will never be the same without the stability of the entire nation behind them. Additionally, the victors will start taking large chunks of land for their own and impose their currency on the people (possibly by allowing an exchange rate?). So a strong devaluation seems likely to me.

Also, the length of my member is not relevant, I don't think! haha.

 

[halfcore]

You could even have some banker "misplace" all their money and move away to non extradition country where he uses their vast wealth to live in luxury and buy protection against any retaliation they might plan.

Haha, I like this too. It could be a whole story arc in its own right. And when they finally catch up with him he'll just shrug his shoulders and say he spent it all.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

*Disclaimer: the following is oversimplified, and the mechanics of the following statements are more complicated*

Currency is an arbitrary, made up system that exists as long as those participating within the system agree it has value.

You've got your 2 major players, the winning nation and the losing nation.

If the members of the losing nation still value their currency, they're likely to continue trading it with each other.

However, if the winning nation does not value the currency, then those on the losing side will need to trade with those on the winning side in what is actually valued. This will force the losing side to eventually adopt the winning side's version, the speed at which will be determined by how hard it is to live if they do not.

 

[Greenfield]

I'll start by stating the obvious: The D&D economy is broken and always has been.

That being said, standard D&D money is in copper, silver, gold and platinum. Actual precious metals.

Before "modern economics", coins were valued based on their actual precious metal weight, period. The stamping of blobs of metal into coins was to certify that said blob really was of a specific weight. When people began to file the backs of such stamped blobs, governments began to stamp both sides, and "standardized coins" as we know them came into being.

When merchants began to file the edges, governments began to mark the edges with the kind of gnurling we see on quarters today.

So what happens to the value of all the PC's gold? No matter whose face is on it, it's still gold.

Now, how much of their actual wealth is in "liquid" form? That is, how much is in coin and how much is in paper? Not paper money, as such, since D&D doesn't normally use such things, but invested in trading companies, held by banks, or in the form of bonds, title deeds or similar holdings?

Everything that isn't actual coin will become worthless as the conquerors come in and claim everything in sight.

By the way, their title to that land you mentioned? That would go away as well.

Alternately, consider the idea that some group of intrepid adventurers, out to save their country from the machinations of a group of well connected but traitorous scalliwags, might come in and topple their little scheme on its backside. And, of course, loot the castle(s) as they go, working their way up until they can face the "big bad" guys (i.e the PCs).

That would leave the PCs dispossessed, their machinations exposed, and themselves hunted in their own homeland. And, of course, not exactly trusted by the would-be conquerors who had placed their trust in them, only to have their dreams dashed.

Isn't this the very stuff of legends, the fabric from which epic fantasy tales are wrought?

 

[nedjer]

Magic writing along the lines of a Black Book is an easy way to mess with out of control currencies by making them more out of control - good for libraries of every spell under the sun too.