PCs fleeing thru Sigil's sewers on Friday the 13th

[Quickleaf]

My game picks up again this friday with the PCs really hurting in a fight against Many-as-One, a cranium rat hive mind. They were considering a tactical withdrawal when we left off.

How might I run a "fleeing thru the sewers" scenario?

I'm thinking of using Richard Baker's "Fight or Flight" optional rules from Dragon #396, but I'd like to sexy it up a bit. The vibe of the sewer complex is already creepy, I want to run with that for Friday the 13th.

There would be literally dozens if not hundreds of cranium rats pursuing the PCs as they fled. Complicating matters is a methane gas trap which closed off their initial entry, so they'll need to find an alternate route out while under pressure from cranium rat attacks, other methane gas powered traps, and sewer terrain hazards.

I'm brainstorming so any input is appreciated.

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

Sounds like a good time for a skill challenge.

Also, I really like stealing maps for things like that off the internet, and old video games.

How deadly do you want to make the escape? Do you want to provide multiple exits? Some might come out near bodies of water, others maybe in the middle of town. Perhaps you could provide them options to slow their pursuers as well, perhaps by blocking off passages, deliberately springing traps after they've passed, etc. Another thing I've found helpful for sequences like that is to provide a means of getting back a surge or two for a moment's respite, a good idea, or other trigger.

Maybe it could even lead to other adventures - maybe the sewer accesses something else - an older, forgotten part of town, buried ruin, ancient catacomb, or, one of my favourites, comes up in somebody's basement!

 

[Quickleaf]

Sounds like a good time for a skill challenge.

Makes sense. I'm thinking complexity III (8 successes before 3 failures).

Also, I really like stealing maps for things like that off the internet, and old video games.

Interesting! How would you use a map for this setup?

How deadly do you want to make the escape?

Less deadly than the fight would be.

Do you want to provide multiple exits? Some might come out near bodies of water, others maybe in the middle of town.

Yes definitely, I like the idea of bubbling up out of sewer water somewhere. I'm thinking that, mechanically, a third failure reached with fewer than 6 successes means the fight resumes (they've been cornered!), while a third failure with 6-7 successes means they've emerged at an unintended location. How's that seem?

Perhaps you could provide them options to slow their pursuers as well, perhaps by blocking off passages, deliberately springing traps after they've passed, etc. Another thing I've found helpful for sequences like that is to provide a means of getting back a surge or two for a moment's respite, a good idea, or other trigger.

All good ideas, thanks!

Maybe it could even lead to other adventures - maybe the sewer accesses something else - an older, forgotten part of town, buried ruin, ancient catacomb, or, one of my favourites, comes up in somebody's basement!

"Good lord there's a Dirty Johnson in my Lou!"

Yeah I've got three connected areas (well 4 including a portal in the chamber they're fighting in): across to a thieves guild, down to a wererat "kingdom", and up to the streets of Sigil.

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

Makes sense. I'm thinking complexity III (8 successes before 3 failures).

You could even run multiple, simpler SCs with less drastic consequences for failing them - each one might represent one smaller sequence of the escape, and a failure might result in a skirmish. Too many skirmishes, and they will start fearing for their lives as their healing resources are whittled away. If someone drops, do they risk slowing themselves down to carry their fallen comrade?

Interesting! How would you use a map for this setup?

Normally, after stealing it from wherever, I just make it fit what I want. Sometimes I print them out and label which direction goes where, etc, basically to make it fit the setting. Then just run it like it was published for a given module - sprinkle in some traps and whatnot.

I used a sewer map not that long ago for a one shot prison break I did. It was easy finding sewer maps on google image search.

Less deadly than the fight would be.

Just curious. A series of level -2 to level+0 encounters for failing SCs might do the trick. You could vary the encounter level based on how badly they've flubbed the checks, or similar conditions. Especially with no rests in between. If they get a success, give them each a surge back or let them recharge a power maybe. Or have that contingent on earning an Advantage in the SC.

Yes definitely, I like the idea of bubbling up out of sewer water somewhere. I'm thinking that, mechanically, a third failure reached with fewer than 6 successes means the fight resumes (they've been cornered!), while a third failure with 6-7 successes means they've emerged at an unintended location. How's that seem?

Those seem like interesting and appropriate consequences.

All good ideas, thanks!

No problem! Anytime


"Good lord there's a Dirty Johnson in my Lou!"

Yeah I've got three connected areas (well 4 including a portal in the chamber they're fighting in): across to a thieves guild, down to a wererat "kingdom", and up to the streets of Sigil.[/QUOTE]

 

[Quickleaf]

Normally, after stealing it from wherever, I just make it fit what I want. Sometimes I print them out and label which direction goes where, etc, basically to make it fit the setting. Then just run it like it was published for a given module - sprinkle in some traps and whatnot.

So you literally map it out and describe the passageways the PCs see blow by blow? Doesn't that get really convoluted?

For example, I found this pretty map (below), and if the PCs were in the big chamber to the right I would roughly narrate: "There are four exits, one on each side of the room."
Then the players would decide where they go and I would fill in the specific hazards/developments according to notes on the map?

You could even run multiple, simpler SCs with less drastic consequences for failing them - each one might represent one smaller sequence of the escape, and a failure might result in a skirmish. Too many skirmishes, and they will start fearing for their lives as their healing resources are whittled away. If someone drops, do they risk slowing themselves down to carry their fallen comrade?

Since I'm going for the mounting dread thing, I was thinking at the end of each round (starting on the 2nd round), a L-2 or L-3 encounter catches up with the PCs. This gives them a real incentive to get out of dodge ASAP. Maybe it'll work better than combat as a consequence of failure to convey urgency? Or could it pose too deadly?

The idea of doubling back for a fallen comrade (or not) fits in great with the theme. What about if a PC fails a check they fall behind or temporarily get separated from the group? I'm not sure what would happen to them during that time, but it's a place to start.

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

So you literally map it out and describe the passageways the PCs see blow by blow? Doesn't that get really convoluted?

Yes, this is (sometimes) literally what I do. My group has several old-schoolers in it, and they really enjoy this kind of classic dungeon crawl experience. I'm old school too, but I hate drawing maps.

It can be tedious, especially if you (or they) make an error in the transcription. One thing that makes it do-able is if one of your players likes mapping, and does so on the fly. Alternately, you could plan a couple routes through the maze, then depending on the results of their SC rolls, describe the path they "chose". Good rolls get them closer to the exit. Bad rolls have them make wrong turn. Too many wrong turns, and they end up back where they started, or lost.

For example, I found this pretty map (below), and if the PCs were in the big chamber to the right I would roughly narrate: "There are four exits, one on each side of the room."
Then the players would decide where they go and I would fill in the specific hazards/developments according to notes on the map?

That's pretty much what I mean, but as I said above in the last part, not the only way to do it. As it happens, I've used that exact same map before. It really is nice.

Since I'm going for the mounting dread thing, I was thinking at the end of each round (starting on the 2nd round), a L-2 or L-3 encounter catches up with the PCs. This gives them a real incentive to get out of dodge ASAP. Maybe it'll work better than combat as a consequence of failure to convey urgency? Or could it pose too deadly?

Not sure - I don't know your group, their characters, or your monsters

It's not bad, but if I were going to go that route, myself, I'd be tempted to stick with mostly minions, for simplicity's sake. Even if they have good area control, it will still sap some resources every round as they keep coming, and coming, and coming. They probably can't kill them all, every round (maybe at first...), so as they leftovers begin to mount, if they stay still too long, they will quickly find themselves against ridiculous odds. Even minions in large enough numbers can be very threatening.

The idea of doubling back for a fallen comrade (or not) fits in great with the theme. What about if a PC fails a check they fall behind or temporarily get separated from the group? I'm not sure what would happen to them during that time, but it's a place to start.

This can certainly add some serious tension to these encounters. The issues I see with that are twofold:

1) if one or more PCs lacks decent skills to navigate the sewers, they will consistently be singled out here. I'd allow them to use other, less conventional skills, to keep up or navigate.

2) if the party does get separated, things can turn deadly really fast. If you're okay with this, and your group is ready and/or okay with this, then it can work.

 

[Quickleaf]

Yes, this is (sometimes) literally what I do. My group has several old-schoolers in it, and they really enjoy this kind of classic dungeon crawl experience. I'm old school too, but I hate drawing maps.

Haha, I'm new old school, and love drawing them. Then again, I work in architecture...

With a "run for your life" scenario like this, would mapping be appropriate thought? I'm trying to reconcile the coolness of using a map with the abstraction and urgency of a chase skill challenge.

That's pretty much what I mean, but as I said above in the last part, not the only way to do it. As it happens, I've used that exact same map before. It really is nice.

Great minds!

Not sure - I don't know your group, their characters, or your monsters

Awesome. All of them.

It's not bad, but if I were going to go that route, myself, I'd be tempted to stick with mostly minions, for simplicity's sake. Even if they have good area control, it will still sap some resources every round as they keep coming, and coming, and coming. They probably can't kill them all, every round (maybe at first...), so as they leftovers begin to mount, if they stay still too long, they will quickly find themselves against ridiculous odds. Even minions in large enough numbers can be very threatening.

Yeah, I was thinking minions too, especially since there isn't going to be a hard and fast battlemap during the chase. The idea is that the hive mind is on high alert and rats are swarming the sewers.

My question is what happens if the PCs say "screw it, we keep running!" Do I let the rats take opportunity shots against them and be done with it? Or do I set it up so the rats are barricading the way?

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

Haha, I'm new old school, and love drawing them. Then again, I work in architecture...

With a "run for your life" scenario like this, would mapping be appropriate thought? I'm trying to reconcile the coolness of using a map with the abstraction and urgency of a chase skill challenge.

The more I think about it, the better I think it would be if you just described where the results of the SC take them. I'd keep the map, but only so that YOU know which way they're going, and can use it for when they return

Great minds!

Yeah, I was thinking minions too, especially since there isn't going to be a hard and fast battlemap during the chase. The idea is that the hive mind is on high alert and rats are swarming the sewers.

My question is what happens if the PCs say "screw it, we keep running!" Do I let the rats take opportunity shots against them and be done with it? Or do I set it up so the rats are barricading the way?

That's a good question. What is the rats' speed compared to the slowest PC? They don't have to outrun everyone, only the slowest character. Hopefully his/her comrades will not abandon them to a gristly fate. You could have it so that rats occasionally nip at the characters as they retreat, and you could have failed SC rolls be reflected in them finding a tunnel swarming with rats that they have to fight their way past, or plow through, etc.

I think the "let's keep going" option is just another opportunity to play off some risk vs reward - maybe add some rolls the the SC, and if they pass, award an advantage for taking chances.

Perhaps they find a passage being swarmed, but just say "keep going." You could decide that they will take some OAs for going through, but with some successful rolls or just sheer grit, if they make it through, they find a shortcut, or a safe area, or something like that.

 

[Quickleaf]

The more I think about it, the better I think it would be if you just described where the results of the SC take them. I'd keep the map, but only so that YOU know which way they're going, and can use it for when they return

Yeah, that makes sense. For the inevitable and terrifying PC revenge scenario.

That's a good question. What is the rats' speed compared to the slowest PC? They don't have to outrun everyone, only the slowest character. Hopefully his/her comrades will not abandon them to a gristly fate. You could have it so that rats occasionally nip at the characters as they retreat, and you could have failed SC rolls be reflected in them finding a tunnel swarming with rats that they have to fight their way past, or plow through, etc.

The PCs (modron, minotaur, hamadryad, pixie, halfling) all have speed 6.
The cranium rats and their wererat minions likewise have speed 6 (climb 3).

It's a very cohesive good-aligned group, so it's doubtful anyone would get left behind unless things were really dire.

I think the "let's keep going" option is just another opportunity to play off some risk vs reward - maybe add some rolls the the SC, and if they pass, award an advantage for taking chances.

Perhaps they find a passage being swarmed, but just say "keep going." You could decide that they will take some OAs for going through, but with some successful rolls or just sheer grit, if they make it through, they find a shortcut, or a safe area, or something like that.

That's perfect!

I'd been jotting down quick notes on risk v. reward possibilities for hard checks, and this fits perfect. Here are some examples, with possible skills to give an idea of what I'm thinking...

A moment’s respite: (Dungeoneering/Stealth DC 23) Find a hiding spot so that you and nearby PCs regain a healing surge or encounter power. However, on a failure additional cranium rats pour in through the would-be hiding spot!

Block off passage: (Special) Prevents 'rat escalation' next round. However, on a failure one or more PCs separated from group.

Open floodgate: (Strength DC 11) Remove all enemies you're currently facing. However, all nearby PCs subject to Attack: +10 vs. Fort/Ref; Hit: PC falls 30' down sewer waterfall (5 damage; Acrobatics DC 11 no damage) and is separated from group.

Spring a trap: (Acrobatics/Thievery DC 23) Spring trap to attack enemies or negate effects of next failure. However, on a failure trigger the trap.

Underwater tunnel: (Endurance DC 23) Swim to different area, going under walls. However, on a failure lose a healing surge.

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

I'd been jotting down quick notes on risk v. reward possibilities for hard checks, and this fits perfect. Here are some examples, with possible skills to give an idea of what I'm thinking...

A moment’s respite: (Dungeoneering/Stealth DC 23) Find a hiding spot so that you and nearby PCs regain a healing surge or encounter power. However, on a failure additional cranium rats pour in through the would-be hiding spot!

Block off passage: (Special) Prevents 'rat escalation' next round. However, on a failure one or more PCs separated from group.

Open floodgate: (Strength DC 11) Remove all enemies you're currently facing. However, all nearby PCs subject to Attack: +10 vs. Fort/Ref; Hit: PC falls 30' down sewer waterfall (5 damage; Acrobatics DC 11 no damage) and is separated from group.

Spring a trap: (Acrobatics/Thievery DC 23) Spring trap to attack enemies or negate effects of next failure. However, on a failure trigger the trap.

Underwater tunnel: (Endurance DC 23) Swim to different area, going under walls. However, on a failure lose a healing surge.

Good stuff! I like it

Glad I could be of help; let me know how it goes, eh?