Pathfinder 1E This is why pathfinder has been successful.

[Steel_Wind]

Two, eh?

If you're married, please share strategies you used to convince the Mrs. on how this approach adds to our mutual quality of life...

You sir, have cut through the fog like a laser with your insightful question. In response, I will confess that my second iPad acquisition (64 gig iPad1/3Gin flawless shape with a raft of accessories) was purchased with the three following principles in mind:

1. The second iPad was of high quality, in flawless shape and could be used by me or my son during PFS sessions for a mere $375. How could I in good conscience refuse?

2. It is easier to seek forgiveness than to obtain permission in such matters; and

3. Full and unrelenting disclosure is tedious and trying and unnecessarily impinges not only upon liberty, but upon happiness itself...

TRANSLATION: Awesome deal, didn't ask and she doesn't know.

 

[Maggan]

Two, eh?

If you're married, please share strategies you used to convince the Mrs. on how this approach adds to our mutual quality of life...

I bought my wife an iPad to use when commuting to and from work.

Now, she wants me to buy one for myself ... so she can have her iPad for herself.



/M

 

[gamerprinter]

Given that on RPG.net I think you've been denying that the fifteen minute adventuring day even exists - or at least you've ever found it a problem then I consider your play ... atypical.

It may very well be atypical. I don't really know what is typical, rather only what my given gamers will do (I don't play with every group, only one - so how can I know or expect what is typical.) They aren't min/maxers, yet they also don't play at suboptimal levels.

Not just RPG.net - here last week, I kiddingly called the 15 minute adventure day a 'myth'. Restating I have never witnessed this happening, only seeing it complained about online. Not saying it's improbable, just something I've never seen.

I've never noticed the PCs to always use their abilities to best effect - they are human, not D&D robots. More often than not they are trying to be creative thinkers rather than followers of any one method of play.

What is typical D&D play?

 

[TheAuldGrump]

It may very well be atypical. I don't really know what is typical, rather only what my given gamers will do (I don't play with every group, only one - so how can I know or expect what is typical.) They aren't min/maxers, yet they also don't play at suboptimal levels.

Not just RPG.net - here last week, I kiddingly called the 15 minute adventure day a 'myth'. Restating I have never witnessed this happening, only seeing it complained about online. Not saying it's improbable, just something I've never seen.

I've never noticed the PCs to always use their abilities to best effect - they are human, not D&D robots. More often than not they are trying to be creative thinkers rather than followers of any one method of play.

What is typical D&D play?

I find it amusing that we are following the rules as intended, are not suffering from something that Mr. Chameleon finds problematic, but somehow we are playing the game wrong....

Somehow... I have my doubts about that.

The Auld Grump

 

[Banshee16]

TRANSLATION: Awesome deal, didn't ask and she doesn't know.

Are we to assume that if you ever disappear off these boards, she found out?

Banshee

 

[Banshee16]

Then the PCs are not using their powers to best effect. 3.X is balanced round 4 encounters/day. Excluding capstones to modules I'm struggling to think of any adventuring days that come close to that level.

Are we playing a wargame here? Or an RPG?

I've never played or run a game like that. Entire sessions sometimes go by with no dice being rolled. The players play their characters, even if it means making suboptimal choices that result in bad (or good) results for them, but that are in character with who they are playing.

It's not just a character sheet with a bunch of numbers. You're playing a role, a personality.

The 15 minute workday just never happened in any of my games. When I'm playing *on a computer*, yes. But not around a table with a bunch of friends.

Banshee

 

[Steel_Wind]

Are we to assume that if you ever disappear off these boards, she found out?

Banshee

Nay, good sir. I am not so reckless as to leave happiness, hearth and home to the vagaries of fortune.

TRANSLATION: Prior to grabbing the extra (used) iPad earlier this month -- I bought her a liquid cooled PC Gaming Rig of Doom with a 27" monitor for Xmas to play SW: The Old Republic upon. She squealed in delight as she was opening all the boxes. Accordingly, she's in no position to assert that my allegedly profligate ways have somehow unjustly excluded her.

 

[gamerprinter]

I find it amusing that we are following the rules as intended, are not suffering from something that Mr. Chameleon finds problematic, but somehow we are playing the game wrong....

Somehow... I have my doubts about that.

The Auld Grump

And obviously, from NeonChameleon's reply of my post, we've had this 'discussion' before on RPG.net, where I must be playing D&D/PF atypically since I encounter none of the issues that he believes exists - so I must be doing it 'wrong' or something.

Because the rules work fine without such issues for my group, I have to guess, that those encountering such issues are doing something different. I don't want to say they are playing it 'wrong', but I have no other explanation.

I had only one player playing a wizard five years ago that insisted on 'nova-ing' his spells in one encounter. When the party chose not to rest to let him regain is spent resources, and his character consequently died later that adventure, no wizard character since has gone 'nova' with his spells. That single encounter corrected all conceptions of a possible 15 minute adventuring day - an easy fix, without changing the rules.

Of course, if you let your players determine the method of play without GM influence - they might very well wreck the game and cause multiple 'issues' to occur.

Again, no issues here - I guess playing atypically must the best way... so there's your solution, NC.

 

[Neonchameleon]

It may very well be atypical. I don't really know what is typical, rather only what my given gamers will do (I don't play with every group, only one - so how can I know or expect what is typical.) They aren't min/maxers, yet they also don't play at suboptimal levels.

Here I'm going to ask what you mean. Playing at optimal levels is min-maxing as I understand it.

I've never noticed the PCs to always use their abilities to best effect - they are human, not D&D robots. More often than not they are trying to be creative thinkers rather than followers of any one method of play.

One of the abilities PCs have is that any time they control the pacing they can use a full loadout of spells. Apparently either you don't ever allow them to do this (IIRC you've said you always sling at least 3 encounters/day) or they don't use it when they have the chance.

I find it amusing that we are following the rules as intended, are not suffering from something that Mr. Chameleon finds problematic, but somehow we are playing the game wrong....

Somehow... I have my doubts about that.

The Auld Grump

Part of D&D as intended is for the PCs to play it smart.

The 15 minute adventuring day is a necessary consequence of daily recharge cycles, the PCs playing things smart, and handing control of pacing over to the PCs. If you're going to risk life and limb there is very little reason not to go in fully loaded if you have control of the pacing.

The Kingmaker AP is one where the pacing is largely down to the PCs. That's part of the point of a sandbox. Which means that if the PCs aren't doing it they arent using the tools they have available.

And my comment on the

Spoiler

trolls

is that they probably didn't hard enough. The more you use the fewer you lose - and if they were purposely holding back, that will have contributed to their defeat.

Of course the whole problem vanishes if no one is playing a full caster. Or the cleric's playing healbot.

 

[Banshee16]

Nay, good sir. I am not so reckless as to leave happiness, hearth and home to the vagaries of fortune.

TRANSLATION: Prior to grabbing the extra (used) iPad earlier this month -- I bought her a liquid cooled PC Gaming Rig of Doom with a 27" monitor for Xmas to play SW: The Old Republic upon. She squealed in delight as she was opening all the boxes. Accordingly, she's in no position to assert that my allegedly profligate ways have somehow unjustly excluded her.

Well played!

Banshee