What would 2e have been if the designers implemented their desired changes?

[Greg K]

While looking up the Ranger/Drizztt two weapon origin, I came across this little bit from David "Zeb" Cook at Dragonsfoot stating that the designers of 2e had wanted to do the following we associate with 3e: 1) Ascending AC; 2) a unified roll system. The ideas were "nixed" to maintain compatibility with 1e products.


"There really wasn't any detailed input higher than that, but a lot of stated goals -- probably the demons and devils thing (honestly, people make way more of a name change than it deserves!) and the overall concern that we had to retain reasonable playability with 1e where we could.

A good example of the latter was what we could have done with armor class. Gameplay and system mechanics-wise, it would have been much better to change AC so it ran from 0 (worst) up. It's conceptually easier and would have given more flexibility in the design. But that would have made it much harder to use 1e material so we nixed it. There were similar discussion about rolling over or under given number. The systems were inconsistent, but it was what players were familiar with. "

So what are your thoughts on the designers having to nix what they thought were better designers to maintain 1e compatabilty? What do you think the game would have been like if they had gone through with the changes?

 

[korjik]

I think it was extremely shortsighted of them. Keeping nonsense so that it is compatable with prior nonsense is nonsense.

I dont think that there has been any time where the fan base would have been against making AC make sense.

 

[Yora]

I have to say 2nd Edition using the math of d20 would probably be my most favorite way of D&D. The unneccessary math is by far the most annoying thing about the game. While skills, feats, and class features were a nice idea in the 3rd Edition, I think I'd rather not have them at all.

What I want from 5th Edition is exactly that: Playing like 2nd Edition, but with cleaned up math.

 

[Janx]

I think it was extremely shortsighted of them. Keeping nonsense so that it is compatable with prior nonsense is nonsense.

I dont think that there has been any time where the fan base would have been against making AC make sense.

On the other hand, we played 2e using 1e Monster manuals for like 6 years.

So, that nonsense of keeping it compatible worked out quite well for us.

I say that as somebody who did not like the ruleset of 1e as I read it. But I do see the value of backwards compatibility.

 

[Giltonio_Santos]

2E with ascending AC and unified d20 mechanic. Give me that and I'll probably never look back.

Cheers,

 

[billd91]

2e was definitely an excellent game and could be easily translated into using an ascending armor class (though I agree with Janx that keeping AC like it was for D&D/1e AD&D did make for exceptionally compatible materials).

I'm not sure what a unified d20 mechanic looks like for 2e though. What does it look like with the use of non-weapon proficiencies? Like 3e skills in some way but with higher values for initially taking the proficiency? What about surprise? Rogue skills?

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

2E with ascending AC and unified d20 mechanic. Give me that and I'll probably never look back.

There are a number of retro-clones that will make you very happy, in that case.

 

[Giltonio_Santos]

There are a number of retro-clones that will make you very happy, in that case.

Well, I've seen some, but none of them to my taste. 1E and OD&D do have some great clones, but I'd be glad with you shared some links for good retro-2E games.

Cheers,

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I'm at work and can't find all the links right now -- I know at least one more is in some stage of development, based on comments at RPG.net -- but here's the first one I could find. I'd also argue that C&C is pretty darn close to a 2E retroclone, lacking mostly non-weapon proficiencies.

 

[Ed_Laprade]

If they'd done that, which I was hoping for, I would have bought/played 2e. As it was, I did use some of their modules. So it was cheaper for me that they didn't!