D&D 4E Finally, a playtest reporting there are good things from 4e in Next!!

[JRRNeiklot]

Right
This is why noone likes level-drain, it's obnoxious and really only utilized so that DM can laugh at the players.


It was also one of D&D's dumbest features. Nobody liked it.

"I don't like 4e so it isn't D&D!!!!" once again: your opinion is NOT FACT.

Irony, meet thyself.

 

[Sunseeker]

Irony, meet thyself.

I didn't claim it wasn't D&D. I claimed that people didn't like it, which lead to it's removal. I do feel it is a part of D&D, just a highly un-fun part.

 

[Essenti]

I didn't claim it wasn't D&D. I claimed that people didn't like it, which lead to it's removal. I do feel it is a part of D&D, just a highly un-fun part.

I recall highschool days playing BECMI (passed along to me by my father in the late 80s). The first Wight we came upon took a hard earned level from my Fighter and sent our party running for our lives through deadly catacombs, back through several still trapped rooms, because we were absolutely horrified by the creature that steals life and couldn't be hit by my steel sword... that was actually a ton of fun. My group survived that first encounter with a solitary Wight and even the traps we ran headlong through in our terrified retreat. We were fearing the horrible Wight would pop out again at any moment as we delved ever deeper into those catacombs! We eventually took down the Wight, on our way out of the catacombs, hoping that the wizards magic could take it out before it could get in close... happily for us, it worked out.

That adventure was a great deal of fun, although losing a level definitely was not! I hope that WoTC can recreate that same level of horror without level loss mechanics. That was absolutely the first battle we ever ran away from, and it turned out that it would not be the last. It immediately set the tone of what it means to be a hero in that version of D&D. Reminding us that there are some battles you just shouldn't try taking on until you know what your are dealing with!

If DDN can provide that type of play for one campaign and then a high powered 4e-like play for another campaign--just by layering some core rule-book provided modules on top--I will be impressed and pleased with 5e.

Still, I don't think level drain is the best mechanic for this, and hope they find other ways to provide a similar feel if we want it.

 

[Rechan]

If I want to play a game that glorifies Bad Things Happen to PCs, I'll play Warhammer Fantasy.

 

[JonWake]

If I want to play a game that glorifies Bad Things Happen to PCs, I'll play Warhammer Fantasy.

PC's win all the fights and never have any consequences loses all sense of risk, and invalidates heroism.

 

[Essenti]

If I want to play a game that glorifies Bad Things Happen to PCs, I'll play Warhammer Fantasy.

I'm uncertain if that was in response to my post, but I don't want to play D&D that glorifies bad things happening to PCs either. There are other games that are solely about that type of play like you mention.

I play 4e when I want to play D&D that provides heroic deeds served fresh with every encounter.

I also play BECMI when I want D&D that is more about exploration and palpable danger like a dark ages Indiana Jones feel. Heroic deeds through risk taking and improvisation.

There are problems with each edition, and I am looking forward to DDN. I definitely hope WoTC accomplish their goal of a unified framework allowing layering on the modules that will allow the groups I play with to have the feeling/aspects we want from the previous editions.

I would also love for WoTC to provide a section in the DMG or something that gets down into the inner workings and math describing how to construct your own modules to interface with the core framework, so the tinkerers have a solid foundation for tweaking the game even more if they want.

 

[Lord Mhoram]

One note on Champions: People sometimes have issues with different versions of Champions, but nowhere near the magnitude of D&D. It's usually minor points here or there, not issues with a major portion of the edition. The feel stayed the same. Each version of Champions stayed well within the genre and the vast majority of players didn't really have edition wars. The same cannot be said of 3E or 4E D&D.

Very good points all.

I actually didn't get into 6E because I didn't like the removal of Figured Characteristics or ECs. But that was me.

As for D&D - I tend to play it like Champions - either the Heroes wake up in a deathtrap, or we do a "pulp serial movie" scene where the players describe "What really happened" and why they didn't die.

But then we don't approach D&D the way a lot of others do. I come up with my basic idea for a world, the players make the characters for it, then I finish the world to fit those specific characters. The way we play it really isn't a "oh, Bob died, time roll up Bob 2" - 3.x was my favorite D&D for the detail and complexity of character generation. We get attached to characters. There is always the chance of failure, but not necessarily death.

 

[Tymophil]

"Makes it difficult to continue on" until they've had a nap, you mean.

What about a monster that annhilates your capacity to have such a nap until a certain amount of time ? An undead haunting your sleep with nightmares for example...

D&D4 monsters are so easy to design, everything gets possible.

You can also resort to terrain power: spleeping in certain places is quite unhealthy...

 

[Rechan]

PC's win all the fights and never have any consequences loses all sense of risk, and invalidates heroism.

For you, but not for me.

 

[Kzach]

If I want to play a game that glorifies Bad Things Happen to PCs, I'll play Warhammer Fantasy.

If I want to play a game that glorifies Nothing Bad Ever Happening to PC's, I'll play D&D 4e!

Admin here. A more accurate statement might be "if I want to get booted from the forum due to edition warring, I'll keep making comments like this one." -- Piratecat