Do fantasy RPGs have to be fantasical?

[GhostBear]

Personally, I like magic in my games to be, well, magical. Special. Something reserved to a small segment of the population, be it because of danger, social accepted, or simply rarity. If it is an every day occurrence then it really loses that special feel.

But still, fantasy gaming does assume that there's a certain amount of magic, somewhere, somehow - but it doesn't have to be a fantastical, uber amount. To me, having too much really ruins a lot of things.

I've never liked those games where there's a magic shop in every hamlet, dozens of air ships powered by fire elementals cloud out the sun, and every other weekend The Great Zamboni is up to his old tricks and creating an undead army.

I also feel that, in a world where there's Magic Everywhere, that the commonplace has no room or even reason to exist. If you can't wield magic, well, you're unevolved. You're on the way out (might make a good campaign base).

Plus, there's all kind of other issues that I'm sure have been discussed to death here on enWorld. For example: Why advance the study of medicine at all when you can just head to your local temple?

Also, in games saturated with magic items in particular, players tend to think of their character as a collection of magic items - not as a character.

But, in the end, it's really a matter of taste, and how much "hand-wavium" you choose to use to explain why someone is still using a manual broom instead of the new Golem-Maid Clean-O-Matic when they're a dime a dozen down the street.

In my games, I obviously prefer a lower level of magic. I don't change very much mechanically though; I simply make magical items more rare, and there aren't "Ye Olds Shoppes" scattered all over. You need to find a collector, perhaps, and strike a bargain. Sorcerers are considered "tainted" by the masses due to past events, and wizards are very strictly monitored by one of several organizations.

None of this really limits the players themselves though (aside from magic item scarcity, which I control). The rest is just fluff - the players simply have to deal with the consequences of harboring a sorcerer should he be discovered, for example, which can lead to fun times.

Also, having a lower-magic game helps bump the importance of non-caster classes.

 

[DragonLancer]

Thank you all for your input.

For me I think it's a case that can have "low" magic. The world still has monsters but the average person just doesn't encounter them, or at least not the big nasty ones. Magic users are rare and power is to be protected rather than everyone having access to it. Remember that adventurers are a rare breed really. I think limiting NPC casters to around 5th-6th level prevents too much power being visible, and items should be rare. Casters have better things to do with their time than make much more than potions, scrolls and maybe wands. For me I don't think it would break too much immersion to see that in game.

But thank you for your insights. It has given me some ideas to ponder.

 

[Corathon]

A fantasy game must have fantasy elements, but those elements need not be ubiquitous. The truly weird and fantastical things stand out well against a background of the mundane. IOW, if everything is fantastical, nothing is.

A fanatsy world can look pretty mundane in large areas. To get that feel, you need powerful characters, magic items and really nasty/strange monsters to be rare. Magic items are likely to be rare if creating them is hard (only possible for high level characters) or a lost art. In that case, magic items are found (rather than made) by adventurers grubbing in the ruins of a lost civilization. Not every merchant will have a bag of holding because the merchant can't just plunk down cash on the barrelhead and get one; things like that are scarce.

If powerful characters and deadly monsters are rare, the world can look more Medieval. Yes, a castle won't keep out a mighty wizard, or a dragon, but it can keep out the neighboring baron's troops. Thats what it was built for, because dragons and mighty wizards are rare.

I've never played Pathfinder, but I guess to get what you want you'd A) make high level NPCs rare and use a slow experience advancement rate to amke it plausible that high level characters are rare, B) Restrict item creation feats to higher levels, C) Prohibit magic shops, and D) make the stranger and more powerful monsters very rare over most of the civilized lands of the campaign.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

Thank you all for your input.

For me I think it's a case that can have "low" magic. The world still has monsters but the average person just doesn't encounter them, or at least not the big nasty ones. Magic users are rare and power is to be protected rather than everyone having access to it. Remember that adventurers are a rare breed really. I think limiting NPC casters to around 5th-6th level prevents too much power being visible, and items should be rare. Casters have better things to do with their time than make much more than potions, scrolls and maybe wands. For me I don't think it would break too much immersion to see that in game.

But thank you for your insights. It has given me some ideas to ponder.

Low-magic settings are cool, but ideally there should be a reason why magic and monsters are rare and mysterious. Even better if that reason accounts for the possibility of multiple casters in the same party, and for one or more of those casters dying...and then getting immediately replaced by new casters.

 

[Aramax]

I like SOME fantastical elements but in gen. run a pretty gritty game.One thing 4th got right was the magic items one minor at will and then a good daily-Nice!

I give out LOTS of potions and then once in a while sneek in something a little better,playing at low leval for a long time means theey will acumulate
about as much magic as they would if they were going up levels

try the potion thing,plays can get used to a little better tha going cold turkey

 

[Niccodaemus]

Thank you all for your input.

For me I think it's a case that can have "low" magic. The world still has monsters but the average person just doesn't encounter them, or at least not the big nasty ones. Magic users are rare and power is to be protected rather than everyone having access to it. Remember that adventurers are a rare breed really. I think limiting NPC casters to around 5th-6th level prevents too much power being visible, and items should be rare. Casters have better things to do with their time than make much more than potions, scrolls and maybe wands. For me I don't think it would break too much immersion to see that in game.

But thank you for your insights. It has given me some ideas to ponder.

Check out my Shatterworld setting. I think it might be your cup of tea

Shatterworld

 

[Elf Witch]

I don't think they have to high magic with a lot of fantastical elements I have played in games where things were more low key then that.

I think it is a matter of taste and what you are in the mood for. Sometimes I am really in the mood for a high magic ala Forgotten Realms style game other times I want a lower magic more grim and gritty.

 

[Jhaelen]

If you've got this far thank you for reading (I do ramble, sorry). My question is do you think that fantasy roleplaying (D&D and Pathfinder specifically) has to be fantastical. If so why, if not, what are you reasons?

Fantasy roleplaying in general: definitely no.

D&D & it's numerous lookalikes: probably.

I never understood why people insist on using the D&D ruleset if it obviously doesn't offer the kind of gameplay they're looking for, e.g. 'realistic' rules, believable economic models, historical accuracy, etc.

Why not choose the right tool for the job?
My favorite pseudo-historical rpg is Ars Magica. It's a low-fantasy high-magic setting, and it's nothing short of brilliant.

Then there's Pendragon which is also a low-magic setting.

There are lots of other great systems that support non-fantastic settings very well. But D&D's strengths have always made it best suited to high-fantasy, high-magic settings.

 

[DragonLancer]

I never understood why people insist on using the D&D ruleset if it obviously doesn't offer the kind of gameplay they're looking for, e.g. 'realistic' rules, believable economic models, historical accuracy, etc.

Because I love D&D and I love the rules. It exemplifies fantasy roleplaying to me and has done since I learned of the game many many years ago. I don't have an issue with the rules or the economics or any of that. I am just in a phase where I was 25 years ago when I first started.

 

[Zelda Themelin]

Not really fan of "low-magic" games. I actually prefer to play mythic heroes type of games eventually. And in those stories main heroes wasn't so mundene to start with, except for rare expections.

I played way too many lowbie games and all those storytelling games by white wolf. And pretty much all back to 90:s. New character got made for verious gaming systems. Many newbie characters, most really easy to forget, since played only one or two sessions.

Then those dm:s settled for what I call boring games.

So after my review with many different gaming style I discoverd my niche. I like high-power game, fantasy super-heroes, gods against aliens. I think my taste is very amazing stories-like. I also like movie-like one-shots vere character die/are demonized in ways of the thing/evil death/haunted house-stories. Too bad I don't have time to visit gaming club where one dm likes to run those. They were awesome.

Mmh I think I prefer extreame. You know, like in sports. And I just like high fantasy with horror, and sometimes little scifi.

And I am quite found of D&D. It lacks some good things some other gaming systems have, but it's still rather sweet. I like 3rd edition most, but play all editions before it.