Spells: How Many Levels?

[JoesephBear]

To the more wizened of the enworld community, for what reasons did pre-3E dnd have spell level disparity?

What did it mean, both mechanically and in fluff, for magic-users to have 9 spell levels while clerics and druids and illusionists had 7?

The only thing that popped into my head is that some dispelling or negating effects only protect against spells of X level and lower. In this way, cleric's version of a spell might be warded (say being a level 3 spell) while a magic-user's version of the same spell might be effective (say being a level 5 spell).

 

[Kynn]

I hope they have 9 levels of spells, and by that I mean 9 levels of spells -- no cantrips.

 

[Stormonu]

If there was a "Priest", would you be happy with them getting 9 levels? Where does the Bard fit? Can they have a similar relation to the wizard as a Cleric does to a Priest?

Just some thoughts.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

Yeah, I could live with an unarmored priest who might have 9 levels.

I would figure the Bard would be a dabbler, getting 5 levels, though he'd start with access at 1st level, instead of the Paladin and Ranger's 4th-5th level. He'd just top out quicker than a full spellcasting class. The Bard isn't one of those classes you really go into for "ultimate power" - their big use is flexibility.

 

[Shemeska]

Be that as it may, I have no problem with the semantics being "tiers" as I have often used in my games or "valences". Shemeska uses the latter in his Story Hour and I found it both evocative and elegant.

I use "tiers" to describe spell levels because using game mechanics terms in a story is horribly clumsy in my opinion. It really hurts my immersion in a story if I see rules speak, thus we get "tiers".

 

[Ratskinner]

I truly don't care too much about keeping spell levels. Most genre sources don't seem to make this distinction between spells (although many imply that some magics are tougher than others.) Additionally, I've always found the pre-4e Vancian system to be more bookkeeping than its worth, but I don't have a terribly wonderful super system to replace it with.

I have been tempted to try some kind of system like the Force Powers in SWSAGA, and the "Talents" in True20, but never got around to statting them up.

 

[variant]

I voted for the 3e version, but the more I think about it, I think the 4e version is fine. So either or.

I hope they would differentiate the Bard's spell casting system much like the Warlock has a unique system in 3e.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

My only comment:

Giant In the Playground Games

 

[Hassassin]

I use "tiers" to describe spell levels because using game mechanics terms in a story is horribly clumsy in my opinion. It really hurts my immersion in a story if I see rules speak, thus we get "tiers".

Is "tier" really any less rules speak? Either term could have been invented by The High Authority of Magic or an ancient spellcaster in the game world, if you want.

 

[Li Shenron]

On the third hand, 20 levels of spells means that there are fewer spells at each level, making potentially easier to choose your daily allotment of spells.

This is actually something I wouldn't like. Easier to choose to me doesn't mean more fun, it means shorter fun, as soon as I would realize that my second wizard character had nearly the same spells as the first.

In third edition, those first three spell levels really seemed to matter. First level spells felt constrained. Second level spells started to show glimmers of what a wizard could do. Third level spells are when the wizard really opened up.

After third level, spell level stop carrying much weight. What's the difference between a sixth and a seventh level spell? It all sort of blurs.

Level 9, of course, has the capstone powers: Disjunction, Meteor Swarm, Power Word Kill, and others. There's definition there. So, really, it is levels four through eight that lack a strong sense of identity.

I would strongly consider doing some consolidating at this point. Merge levels four and five, six and seven, and eight and nine to leave behind a six level spell progression. Then replace linear spell level progression with something that slows down as a character levels. Fill in the gaps with interesting class features.

Very good observations.