Help! Time to Throw And Let Go

[Water Bob]

I'm having one of those discussions with one of my players. We're all new to the rules, and sometimes people get used to what they did before and can't understand new ways of handling situations.

Do any of you have any links to data that shows average times to aim and throw a spear at a moving target, or averge time to knock, pull aim and let loose a bow arrow?

Doing some Googles, I find that info is kinda hard to find. If you've got a good link with believeable data, I'd sure like to look at it.

Thanks.

 

[trancejeremy]

You might look for videos on youtube.

But anyone who has any sort of proficiency, it's not going to be any time at all, and experts probably faster than you can blink

For instance, this guy is pretty awkward at it, but still probably one every few seconds

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CNEhEeC2-M]Archery - Fast Shooting - YouTube[/ame]

And this lady is faster

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o9RGnujlkI]Archery - Fast Shooting (Murmansk) - YouTube[/ame]

I would imagine any character in an RPG that uses a bow would be much better.

And then there is apparently a world record

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKY9FpRGyJI]World record: 11 arrows shot into the air before the first arrow reaches the ground. - YouTube[/ame]

He's not aiming though

 

[amerigoV]

I'm having one of those discussions with one of my players. We're all new to the rules, and sometimes people get used to what they did before and can't understand new ways of handling situations.

Do any of you have any links to data that shows average times to aim and throw a spear at a moving target, or averge time to knock, pull aim and let loose a bow arrow?

Doing some Googles, I find that info is kinda hard to find. If you've got a good link with believeable data, I'd sure like to look at it.

Thanks.

If a player wants to challenge the rules, its up to them to make a credible arguement and appropriate solution that is balanced to the game. Remind them that if you change attack speed for one weapon, you need to review them all, including monsters - and it would be up to them to do all the leg work for your review since its their issue.

And its not credible data unless its context is "shooting arrows at a dragon that is trying to breathe fire on you". If he cannot find that data, be sure to volunteer to help him create it - they can shoot arrows while you pour gaslone on them and light them on fire.

Just remember, the DM should have fun in a rules arguement before saying no.

 

[delericho]

I'm having one of those discussions with one of my players.

I assume you're the DM? In that case, apply the RAW, and advise the player that he shouldn't let his disputes interfere with the game.

Do any of you have any links to data that shows average times to aim and throw a spear at a moving target, or averge time to knock, pull aim and let loose a bow arrow?

Bear in mind that you're dealing with the abstraction of the rules here, which means that the values are off at both ends of the scale.

On the one hand, it is possible to draw and fire a bow very quickly indeed... but that's a world away from being able to aim accurately enough to find the gaps in plate armour. If the player is arguing that his character should be able to fire faster than the rules allow, point him to the Rapid Shot feat, advise that he'll get more attacks at higher level... Or you could just let him fire however many shots he wants, but advise him that he's just wasting ammunition - he doesn't actually have any chance of hitting.

On the other end of the scale, if the player is complaining that a high-level fighter can throw an unrealistic number of spears in a single round, remind the player that this is a fantasy game, and that once the characters exceed about 5th level they are clearly superhuman. Sure, he won't be able to find anyone in the real world who can do these things, but that's because his character is Boromir, or Leonidas, or similar.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Are you talking about time to aim and throw or number of shots you can fire in a given time? Because the two are distinctly different (for instance the spear ends with recovery).

From Wikipedia:

Shooting rate

A typical military longbow archer would be provided with between 60 and 72 arrows at the time of battle. Most archers would not loose arrows at maximum rate, as it would exhaust even the most experienced man. "With the heaviest bows [a modern warbow archer] does not like to try for more than six a minute."[31] Not only do the arms and shoulder muscles tire from the exertion, but the fingers holding the bowstring become strained; therefore, actual rates of shooting in combat would vary considerably. Ranged volleys at the beginning of the battle would differ markedly from the closer, aimed shots as the battle progressed and the enemy neared. Arrows were not unlimited, so archers and their commanders took every effort to ration their use to the situation at hand.

 

[nedjer]

Are you talking about time to aim and throw or number of shots you can fire in a given time? Because the two are distinctly different (for instance the spear ends with recovery).

From Wikipedia:

A typical, light composite bow can be fired accurately at a frightening rate, which isn't really practical in-game. At contact ranges over 20m the best tactic for the rest of a party at the start of many combat encounters would be to throw themselves on the floor if the Murmansk archer was about.

However, if the player doesn't mind meeting opponents that can fire at the same rate - and also adjusting h2h attacks to allow multiple attacks at the rate they might realistically be delivered . . . i.e. as Gary Gygax put it: D&D is rubbish at simulation, because it wasn't designed to be a wargame.