Losing prerequisite feats.

[Xakk]

So I was trying some out of the box thinking to try to get into a PrC. Now my PrC requires a feat at the far side of it's chain. My DM has authorized retraining as per PH2 to try to reach the prereqs by next level. The final salient fact is that whilst the feat in question may or may not require the feats at the beginning of it's chain, the prestige class markedly does not.
So the question is, if I, after gaining levels in a prestige class, retrain away feats that the prestige class does not require, but the prestige class's requirements require, do I then lose class abilities as if losing a direct requirement of the class? Whilst I'll not have use of the feat, I'll still have the feat.
I read that the caveat is that I have to retrain the feat into one I could have taken when I chose it, but for the purpose of this thread let's just assume I'm scrapping it for no feat at all. I realize this bends the rules a bit, don't need to be reminded.

 

[Omegaxicor]

by RAW? yes

you no longer have access to Superior Power Attack (Frenzied Berserker) if you retrain away Power Attack, but I am sure that others will try to argue against this, because RAW isn't 100% clear on this (in some interpretations)

It all depends on the DM, there's nothing in the rules you can show your DM to justify it but your DM might be OK with you having abilities you shouldn't be able to use (that's why I don't allow my players to retrain)

 

[Jackinthegreen]

To quote Complete Warrior, page 16:

If a character no longer meets the requirements for a prestige class, he or she loses the benefit of any class features or other special abilities granted by the class. The character retains Hit Dice gained from advancing in the class as well as any improvements to base attack bonus and base save bonuses that the class provided.

To go along with your thought though, let's say a PrC required Improved Trip. Unless you got it without taking Combat Expertise, retraining Combat Expertise means you no longer qualify for Improved Trip and thus no longer qualify for the PrC.

As per the rules on the SRD

A character can’t use a feat if he or she has lost a prerequisite.

 

[delericho]

So I was trying some out of the box thinking to try to get into a PrC. Now my PrC requires a feat at the far side of it's chain. My DM has authorized retraining as per PH2 to try to reach the prereqs by next level. The final salient fact is that whilst the feat in question may or may not require the feats at the beginning of it's chain, the prestige class markedly does not.

That "may or may not require" bit has me a little confused. Am I right in thinking it works like this:

Prestige Class requires feat A.

Feat A requires feat B.

Prestige Class does not say that it requires feat B.

?

So the question is, if I, after gaining levels in a prestige class, retrain away feats that the prestige class does not require, but the prestige class's requirements require, do I then lose class abilities as if losing a direct requirement of the class? Whilst I'll not have use of the feat, I'll still have the feat.

IMO, yes. If you retrain feat B, you lose the use of feat A. And although the strict text of the RAW says you must have feat A (rather than "have the use of"), I would argue that that's implicit in the text.

Although, to be honest, I wouldn't let you retrain away the prerequisite feat B in the first place.

 

[Empath Negative]

Can Ring of Evasion legally be used as prerequisite?

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

If your DM approves, this discussion is moot.

I agree with my esteemed colleagues above regarding the RAW interpretation. You should not be able to do this.

Some PrC's are a pain in the butt to access on purpose.

Good Luck.

 

[anest1s]

Can Ring of Evasion legally be used as prerequisite?

Would you put all your levels in a ring? What if you lose it?

 

[Wyvernhand]

All of your class features dependent on that PrC turn off. Depending on which ruling you use (Complete Warrior and Complete Arcane have slightly different rules than the DMG). You retain your BAB, HP, and saves from the PrC, but just about everything else turns off (like a fallen Paladin) until you regain the ring, or otherwise requalify (possibly by taking 2 levels in Rogue or Monk). If you use CWarrior or CArcane's ruling, they NEVER turn back on, which is kinda dumb.

 

[Sekhmet]

Would you put all your levels in a ring? What if you lose it?

I allowed this train of thought once, in my earlier days of 3.5 DMing. One of my players had magic bracers that granted him improved strength and the Power Attack feat.

A Dire Lion bit one of his arms off, and suddenly he lost 8 levels of a PrC.

I didn't let anyone use items as prereq's anymore.

 

[Greenfield]

It can get stranger still. the Sand Shaper PRC from Sandstorm requires the feat Touchstone: City of the Dead.

Now the Touchstone feat gives you a link to a mystical place, and grants certain bonuses based on the site you're linked to. You can change your link, however, without retraining the feat. It's not quite like changing socks, but you could in fact do it several times a week if you chose.

So a person could lose and regain their PRC several times a week.

Wow. just wow.