D&D 4E The New Monster Math, Explained and Expanded

[Tequila Sunrise]

I can usually manage Exel, with much fumbling and cursing. Numbers looks a lot like Exel, but I can't get anywhere with it...

Thanks for your contribution though, Grandpa!

 

[Rechan]

I can usually manage Exel, with much fumbling and cursing. Numbers looks a lot like Exel, but I can't get anywhere with it...

Thanks for your contribution though, Grandpa!

I'm doing a very limited version of it in excel. Just for my own purposes. I'll post the first 10 levels here when I'm done.

 

[Grandpa]

1) That is awesome and pretty.

2) The HP is way, way off. A 1st level artillery has 84 HP? Maybe it's for solos or something, but certainly doesn't specify.

I downloaded and tested it and it was only 84 hp when the caste is "solo." Switching the caste to "standard" made it look good. By default I had it set to a Solo Controller -- maybe that was confusing -- so I'll update the file to be "Standard" caste by default.

I can usually manage Exel, with much fumbling and cursing. Numbers looks a lot like Exel, but I can't get anywhere with it...

I tried to make it really basic, with drop downs for everything. I updated the file with text that describes which parts to edit, and whether they'll be drop downs or text you fill in however you like. Maybe it'll help (maybe not)!

 

[Arlough]

Sorry to necro this thread, but while I believe my question is important, I don't think it merits its own thread as it is so closely tied to this thread's topic.

What about swarms <insert dramatic music>
Here is the glossary entry on swarms...

Monster Manual (1)

Swarm [Keyword]: A swarm is considered a single monster even though it is composed of several Tiny creatures. Most single swarms are Medium, but some can be larger.
A swarm takes half damage from melee and ranged attacks. It is vulnerable to close and area attacks, as indicated in the monster’s stat block. A swarm is immune to forced movement (pull, push, and slide) effects from melee and ranged attacks. Close or area attacks that impose forced movement affect the swarm normally.
A swarm can enter or move through an enemy’s space; this movement does not provoke opportunity attacks. An enemy can enter a space occupied by a swarm, but the space occupied by the swarm is considered difficult terrain, and doing so provokes an opportunity attack.
A swarm can squeeze through any opening large enough to accommodate even one of its constituent creatures. For example, a swarm of bats can squeeze through any opening large enough for one of the bats to squeeze through. See the Player’s Handbook for squeezing rules.​

The underlining is, of course, mine.

As indicated, swarms take half damage from most attacks (given that most attacks are melee or ranged), doesn't provoke opportunity attacks as it moves into a character's space, but does get opportunity attacks as a character moves out of it's space, and are immune to forced movement caused by melee or ranged attacks.

It would seem to me that swarms are not just another monster feature, but instead enough of a power shift that they are almost their own quasi-class.

I know my players believe that swarms are at least worth 1.5 monsters of their level.

Does anyone else have a take on this?

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

Sorry to necro this thread, but while I believe my question is important, I don't think it merits its own thread as it is so closely tied to this thread's topic.

Not at all. In fact I was about to update Marvelous Monsters, and give the thread a bump. So thanks for saving me the trouble!

Does anyone else have a take on this?

Honestly, I've never thought much about swarms until now. You do make good points, I just don't really use swarms. I'll give it some thought...

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Do "new" swarms still avoid OAs when entering a PCs' space?

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

Does anyone else have a take on this?

After thinking about this a bit, I'm prone to treat the swarm keyword as a mega-trait rather than a new role. "Half damage from melee and ranged attacks" is essentially increasingly high damage resistance, so I wouldn't want a stat block to have the swarm keyword and other extras like recharge powers or regen or whatnot.

This question has made me realize that it'd probably be a good idea to reproduce up-to-date keyword definitions in my doc though!

Do "new" swarms still avoid OAs when entering a PCs' space?

The swarm text in MM3 and MV don't mention opportunity attacks, which presumably means that New swarms follow conventional OA rules. (They can still share space with other creatures, and it's still difficult terrain.)

(Oddly I can't find any actual New swarms though.)

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I know DSCC and Threats to the Nentir Vale have swarms in them. I think MV has rat swarms and spider swarms. Alas, MV is small and keeps getting lost :/

 

[Arlough]

After thinking about this a bit, I'm prone to treat the swarm keyword as a mega-trait rather than a new role. "Half damage from melee and ranged attacks" is essentially increasingly high damage resistance, so I wouldn't want a stat block to have the swarm keyword and other extras like recharge powers or regen or whatnot.

The swarm text in MM3 and MV don't mention opportunity attacks, which presumably means that New swarms follow conventional OA rules. (They can still share space with other creatures, and it's still difficult terrain.)

As for OA rules, while the MM3 and monster vault never mention it, it was also never mentioned in the errata. My inclination thus far has been to keep the MM1 rules and give them an XP value of 1.6 that of a the same monster without the swarm keyword.

(Oddly I can't find any actual New swarms though.)

I can't remember if it was ever official, but I do remember there were conversations with WotC about how swarms were too powerful. This may be why it is hard to find any in MM3 and beyond.
I stopped buying into 4th at the release of Essentials, so I can't check the monster vault for you.

Is there anyone out there with a MV that can verify the existence or lack of swarms?

 

[Incenjucar]

Is there anyone out there with a MV that can verify the existence or lack of swarms?

The MV has five different swarms.