I think you peeps are not thinking about+n swords properly!

Aramax · Mar 16, 2012

every body is discussing this from a math/DM perspective-it should be thought of from a player perspective,and from that perspective they should be there but
the reaction should be"Finally I got a PLUS 1 SWORD! Yea Im great,Im awesome!"

Sunseeker · Mar 16, 2012

Players should always be at least a 8/10 on the happiness scale when receiving ANY loot. But telling your players to "shut up and be happy or gtfo" isn't going to make the problem any better.

DEFCON 1 · Mar 16, 2012

Problem is... we've had almost 40 years to come to the conclusion that a +1 sword really ain't that big of a deal. An extra +1 to hit and an extra +1 to damage. I can get the same thing by charging and using a one-handed weapon in two hands.

Henry · Mar 16, 2012

I'm not sure of your point, Aramax -- are you saying there should be more "sense of wonder" when a player earns a +1 sword, than just a math discussion? I agree -- but there needs to be a carrot instead of a stick to encourage that "sense of wonder". It's 40 years into RPG gaming -- not only is a plain bonus kind of a "been there, done that" sort of thing, but it needs to be something that is mildly game-breaking, and something you can't get anywhere else in the game. The more you can buy those kinds of bonuses regularly, though equipment or through feats and abilities, then the less special they are, no matter how much someone says they should be.

Want magic swords to be special again? Make them game-breaking, just like they were under AD&D. There weren't many ways to get that kind of bonus, so same logic applies.

WarlockLord · Mar 16, 2012

And, as a player, I say "Bored now...can I get one that lets me teleport or something?"

Crazy Jerome · Mar 16, 2012

Designers should do a lot of stuff that is boring to most people--such as getting the math right--not because it is all important to us, but so that it need not be important to us at all.

I don't drive down the road thinking, "Awesome the way they got those wheels attached so that they don't come off at random times!" Games are not, and cannot be, engineered to the same degree of robustness as moderately heavy machinery that routinely winds its way at speed. Still, games have their own minimum thresholds that they need to meet.

A player might be excited about getting a mere +1 magic sword--in a game where getting such a sword didn't have issues. That was part of the charm of early D&D, after all.

Mokona · Mar 16, 2012

Aramax said:
it should be thought of from a player perspective

Speaking as a player, "I don't want +N weapons in the game that mean I have to seek out loot to keep up with the Jones".

grimslade · Mar 16, 2012

+1 swords get a -20 to my SoD attack

It should be thought of from a game perspective.
Is the +1 needed to fix the math of attacks and defenses, or does it provide a leg up on the system? One makes a magical sword a mechanical object needed to keep a PC viable to level appropriate threats, sucking any 'magic' a player might feel about finding +1 sword. The other is a poorly expressed example of the sword that is faster/sharper/adds skill.

kitsune9 · Mar 16, 2012

Henry said:
Want magic swords to be special again? Make them game-breaking, just like they were under AD&D. There weren't many ways to get that kind of bonus, so same logic applies.

And make them unusual in that the player has to figure them out. A time-consuming exercise, but one that has it's own rewards once the player realizes what a weapon can do and is somewhat game-breaking.