Would you quit a game if....

[Oryan77]

Hm. What you call "an ultimatum", I call "a player telling me their desired playstyle beforehand".

I call it an ultimatum. It doesn't make a difference that it is his playstyle. It is still an ultimatum and a threat. It wouldn't make me feel any better knowing that it is "just his playstyle".

 

[frankthedm]

I'd remove them from the group. No need to wait until the character died. Better to be rid of them before any bonds form.

"Well, it is your decision if you want a game where your character won't die. It is a shame you won't be joining us since you are not going to be playing in any game I'm running. You are not getting the opportunity to become a part of the group before you leave on your own terms. You are leaving it now."

 

[Elf Witch]

Well I don't think I have ever had a PC 'not die'. Campaigns I have played have either ended with PC deaths or us feeling it is time to move on with another game/campaign. I have never played an AP with a defined end game. So in that case he is going to leave anyway, I would just randomly kill his PC in some lava trap and get on with your game with the others.

That is just such a grown up way to handle it.

I have never understood the kill character DM revenge attitude. And I think it makes players who in the end don't trust DMs.

How hard is it to just talk to the player and explain that you won't go out of the way to kill their character but you are not going to give them total immunity. And if the player is not okay with that then it would be best to part ways.

 

[Thunderfoot]

Bob,
I feel for you. I noticed in the late 90s this trend in some role players to think "video game or movie" wise that their characters were bullet proof. It wasn't a ton, mind you, just a few here and there. I've also noticed that it's getting worse. I've actually had a player ask where the save point was once. After the hysterics I realized he was serious and had to snap myself out of the stunned silence of, "WTF Dude?"

Sure Conan and James Bond didn't die....But Boromir did. What about Gandalf, sure he came back through a rez, but that is always a possibility in D&D too. What about Alanon in the Shannarah series, he was pretty much the only recurring character and he was killed off. No hero is assured a place at the end in fantasy. Ever. There is always a chance, however slight that death will occur and it will most likely be painful, bloody and unpleasant. If you want to play a game where you can re-load, your computer and game consoles are available.

No matter how good the player is, he would be unwelcome at my table unless we were playing board games.

 

[bloodtide]

I encounter this type of player all the time. They are very common.

It's simply the effect of the last couple of decades of horrible writing for TV shows and movies, video games and the whole Disney- affection and political correctness.

I've been a killer DM from day one though. There is no plot armor in my games. I've done the Ye Old kill a PC in the first five minutes of a game lots of times.

It's not that as the Dm your just gonna kill the PC(after all if it was you could just say 'rocks fall you all die'), it's more the chance it can happen any time. For me the chance of death is what makes RPGs unique!

In almost all other media, you have to pretend that you don't know the character is immortal. You watch the new James Bond movie and you know Bond will never die. And you wonder: why does he even duck when bad guys shoot at him. After all....James Bond could walk right up to the bad guy, let them press the gun to his chest and empty the clip....and low and behold Bond would not be hurt(I remember the great Rambo clip from UHF...). This quickly ruins a story as you know characters are immortal...to enjoy the story you have to 'pretend' like the character could die any second.

 

[Michael Silverbane]

I think it would be a good idea to communicate with this player that character death is definitely something that is on the table. If the player feels that strongly about it, it might be best for him to find another group, rather than continuing on in a game that is (likely) to end in hurt feelings.

 

[AeroDm]

I don't think his communication is unreasonable, but if your interpretation of his communication is accurate, his communication might be. I've played in campaigns before where losing a character and trying to get a new one integrated with the group was hard. Wanting to avoid that isn't irrational. If his point is that he just doesn't want to go through that hassle, I bet you can work something out. If his point is, "I'll quit if you kill me and I'm going to be reckless as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore!" then maybe you should drop him from your player network.

 

[Elf Witch]

I encounter this type of player all the time. They are very common.

It's simply the effect of the last couple of decades of horrible writing for TV shows and movies, video games and the whole Disney- affection and political correctness.

I've been a killer DM from day one though. There is no plot armor in my games. I've done the Ye Old kill a PC in the first five minutes of a game lots of times.

It's not that as the Dm your just gonna kill the PC(after all if it was you could just say 'rocks fall you all die'), it's more the chance it can happen any time. For me the chance of death is what makes RPGs unique!

In almost all other media, you have to pretend that you don't know the character is immortal. You watch the new James Bond movie and you know Bond will never die. And you wonder: why does he even duck when bad guys shoot at him. After all....James Bond could walk right up to the bad guy, let them press the gun to his chest and empty the clip....and low and behold Bond would not be hurt(I remember the great Rambo clip from UHF...). This quickly ruins a story as you know characters are immortal...to enjoy the story you have to 'pretend' like the character could die any second.

You do realize that it has not just been the last 20 years are so. TV back in the 50s,60s and 70s was not gritty. Today more characters are likely to die in a show then back then.

Most of the audience is not going to enjoy a film where James Bond dies or Conan gets taken out by orc number 2.

It is not about knowing that they are not going to die we all know that what is fun about those movies is watching how they solve the problems.

Tell me would the Die Hard movies be as much fun if John McClain buys the farm?

Boromir dies after taking out dozens of Orcs, Thedon dies after leading his men bravely in battle.

As a player it really sucks if your character dies in the first five minutes and if you have a lot of character death then the attitude comes why bother developing a personality you are just cannon fodder.

Death has a place in the game but if it is used to often then for a lot of players the game is no longer fun.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Tell me would the Die Hard movies be as much fun if John McClain buys the farm?

Depends on how it was done.

Both Westworld and Young Guns cast "lead actors" in roles you'd expect to be "safe"...then killed them off.

In the 2Ed module, "Vecna Lives", you get a high level TPK to start off the game if you run it as written.

 

[Elf Witch]

Depends on how it was done.

Both Westworld and Young Guns cast "lead actors" in roles you'd expect to be "safe"...then killed them off.

In the 2Ed module, "Vecna Lives", you get a high level TPK to start off the game if you run it as written.

Of course it depends on how it is done. Boromir death is very moving in the movie. Spock dying in the Wrath of Khan was great. But if Spock had died in episode 2 of the TV series he would have just been another red shirt biting the dust.

That is one of my points. Losing your character in the climactic battle going out in a blaze of glory is one thing. Being killed at first level by a kobold or house cat not nearly as much fun.

It really depends on the genre. The reason we don't want to see James Bond, Conan or John McClain die at the hands of the bad guys is because they to quote Firefly are big damn heroes.

In other genres like Young Guns which is one of my favorite movies you expect to see some character death. In a horror genre you expect a high body count.

I like playing in long term campaigns so death really can destroy that. I have seen a TPK derail a game that everyone was having a blast with. With no way of saving anyone it was hard to bring in new characters who knew all the ins and outs of what we had been doing. The game fizzled because it was no longer the same game we were having so much fun with. Even the DM admitted it wasn't the same.

Now in a one shot or a very gritty game like Midnight death can me more fun and not derail the game as much.