Pathfinder 1E World of Golarion going Lovecraft too much?

[delericho]

I'm very much in favour of them including horror elements of all sorts in Golarion. I'm not particularly a fan of them including specifically Lovecraftian elements in Golarion (that runs the risk of becoming a "name check" version of horror, which actually turns out not to be horrific at all).

However, thus far I feel that they've handled their inclusions very well indeed. As long as they retain a deft touch, I have no issue whatsoever.

 

[ahayford]

As was mentioned, a lot of this has to do with the fact that Cthulu recently went public domain.

 

[tylermalan]

I definitely don't think there is such a thing as too much Lovecraft, but the point I actually want to make is that I can't believe anyone thinks there is too much in Golarion with how little there really is. Unless I'm missing some big AP inclusion or otherwise god-related stuff that I don't know too much about.

 

[Crothian]

When the APG came out I did fear this as the Sorcerer has many bloodline options that seemed to go this direction, but since then there doesn't seem to be a as much reference to it all. There are references there but it seems like not that much considering the sheer amount of books and products Paizo keeps publishing.

 

[Matthias]

For me, this definitely seems to be true. I don't mind the occasional bit of horror, but the inclusion of Lovecraft monsters takes it a bit too far for me. I love my CoC games every now and then, but when I want to play in Golarion, I want it to be new and different enough, not anything that's imported from elsewhere.

Players and me have decided to rename the monsters and alter them well enough to they aren't Lovevcraft anymore, but I begin to worry about my (momentarily) fav RPG world.

Does anyone else feel that way or are we the odd players?

I haven't got an issue with it. The content can be there but you don't have to use it or even pretend it exists. Distant Worlds is the same way--in your campaign if no one ever leaves Golarion and nothing ever visits it from offworld, then for all intents and purposes there are no other inhabited planets.

 

[Voadam]

I see it and I like it.

I bought the Pathfinder Adventure Path Carrion Crown #4 Wake of the Watcher for the elder gods section. I ran a pathfinder game of the Freeport trilogy which features investigation into a named Lovecraftian Elder God's cult as the main plot. When I ran it in 3.5 I had a PC who was a cultist to another one.

I keep on the lookout for a d20 CoC book at a decent price but have not gotten one yet.

I've long used Cthulhu stuff as inspiration for my D&D games.

A while ago I started a thread on mythos creatures in Paizo bestiaries. You can check out James Jacobs' response in post #9 in that thread

We have indeed been putting Lovecraftian monsters in our Bestiaries from the start, along with some other creatures from public domain literature—we generally provide a partial list of these monsters in the first paragraph of each Bestiary's introduction:

Bestiary 1: H. G. Wells's morlocks, Lovecraft's ghasts and shoggoths

Bestiary 2: Frank Belknap Long's hounds of Tindalos, Lewis Carroll's jabberwock, and Lovecraft's Leng spiders, gugs, denizens of Leng, and shantaks.

Bestiary 3: Lovecraft's moon-beasts, vooniths, yithians, and zoogs; Lewis Carroll's bandersnatch and jubjub bird—also Robert E. Howard's zuvembie and China Mieville's ceratioidi (although those last two are unusual cases and aren't from the public domain—we got permission from Howard's estate to print the zuvembie and hired China to develop the ceratioidi for us in "Guide to the River Kingdoms")

Beyond this, we often include mythos elements in our adventures—Pathfinder AP volumes #4, #6, #21, #49, and particularly #46 all have monsters from the mythos in them, and we've done a few adventures in the Module line (notably Crucible of Chaos and Carrion Hill) that do more with these themes.

We'll be doing more. Because I loves me the mythos. And as it turns out, so do a lot of other folks!

 

[Matthias]

As well, if Cthulhu/Lovecraft is in, where does that put Conan the Barbarian? IIRC Howard's setting was antediluvian Earth so the solar system somewhere in the same material plane?

 

[Systole]

I have to say I don't like Elder Gods in Pathfinder. I love CoC stuff, but once you put Elder Gods into a setting, then all of the stuff that isn't CoC is rendered meaningless. If you're not fighting the Elder Gods, then whatever heroic struggles you overcome, you're just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Band of orcs running around the forest? Doesn't matter, Cthulhu's gonna eat everyone.

Evil dragon terrorizing the countryside? Doesn't matter, Cthulhu's gonna eat everyone.

Thieves Guild full of wererats about to take over a city? Doesn't matter, Cthulhu's gonna eat everyone.

The Evil Enslaver Kingdom of ABC just declared war on the Shiny Happy Kingdom of XYZ?


















...Doesn't matter, Cthulhu's gonna eat everyone.

I like CoC, but it is not a throw-it-in kind of item for any old universe, even a kitchen sink universe. Golarion might be a fantasy kitchen sink, but Lovecraftian Elder Gods are the Kitchen Sink-Devouring Spawn Of The Great Insane Eater Of Kitchen Sinks Who Lies Dreaming At The Center of Creation Until The Stars Align Once More At Which Time He's Seriously Gonna F*ck Up Some Kitchen Sinks I Sh*t You Not.

It's just not a good match.

 

[frankthedm]

Love it. Definitely adds to my desire to purchase more pathfinder books.

If you're not fighting the Elder Gods, then whatever heroic struggles you overcome, you're just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

There is supposed to always be something stronger than the PCs. Lovecraftian outer gods ensure there will ALWAYS be something stronger. . Even if paizo creating Epic Rules that go all Dungeons & Dragonballs and let players surpass the power levels of the gods, there is going to be something bigger to take a bite out of the PC's self created cosmoses.

 

[N'raac]

The issue I always see is the difference between the Mythos Elements and the Mythos Mindset. "We killed three shoggoths and a city of Deep Ones" isn't Lovecraftian. They're just inspiration for more powerful monsters, but they're still out there for the PC's to defeat, not to represent mind-shattering horrific beings which will ultimately crush humanity.

Classic Mythos is a doomsday scenario - at best you can stave off the inevitable. And much classic Lovecraft is not even about staving off the inevitable, but peeling back the onion to understand the universe - a universe where understanding leads inevitably to insanity. That kind of defeatist universe is not one many gamers want to game in, so the mythos gets twisted into something that can be battled successfully. That's still fun for a lot of gamers - but it's not really Lovecraft. His stories don't end with "and having sent Cthulhu back to the deep for another hundred years, the Captain retired, married, had many children and grandchildren and lived a life of peace and happiness".