D&D (2024) DMG and Pf2e GM Core... Same design philosophy?

Alby87

Adventurer
Hi everyone. Recentely I've seen the Pointy Hat DMG review, and he raises the concern about missing worldbuilding tables. Also I think he also said there are no random dungeon tables (don't quote on me on this, I've seen it yesterday) and no random encounters. This morning I had a doubt and checked the GM Core Pathfinder 2e manual, and I notice that it misses the same things, instead giving you a "complete" setting (Age of Lost Omens for one, Geyhawk for the other).

The idea that WotC is not giving you tools for building new settings/monsters/magic item to promote their books is not too wrong, but everyone who previewed this book said that this lead to a more beginner's friendly DM book, having more space for teaching the really base things (and for this I'm happy).

BUT
These "missing bits" weren't felt on GM Core, because who plays Pf2e prefer to use Golarion and all the Adventure Paths and premade adventures Paizo publishes (often ranging to very good to excellent, something I don't feel on WotC adventures).

So... this means WotC really started to hope people will not homebrew new things anymore? Or they will publish a "DMG2" (obvious with another name) with the missing tables from the 2014 DMG, along with other tools to help people create their dungeons, towns, wilderness, world, cosmology. That would be a great book, altough it would have to fight with some excellent other tool books, starting with older DMGs they still sell on DMsGuild.

Do you think, (based on preview) that WotC is pulling a Paizo on us?
 

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Maybe these tools will be on their online platform? Maybe it will be on their website? It would be cool to have a book or supplement where there are charts or a place where you can modify them to fit your game but have them as more a standard to help new DMs.
 

These seems like a fairly far-fetched conclusion to draw from extremely thin evidence.
1. Maybe the writers don’t consider that pre-made world-building tables and random encounter tables are particularly useful to encouraging world—building;
2. Maybe the writers, as has been suggested elsewhere, believe that an extensive worked-through example (such as Greyhawk) is a better way to teach new DMs how to world-build;
3. Maybe the random encounter tables were moved to the Monster Manual?
4. Maybe the designers are reserving this for another book devoted to world-building?
5. Maybe these tools are going to be added to D&D Beyond?

Either way, it seems pretty hand-wringy to worry that WotC wants to discourage homebrew worlds because they didn’t include a ton of random tables in the DMG.
 

I'm pretty critical of WotC, but if I'm being honest, I think a lot of the time the random tables hold almost no use for me compared to what can be found on websites like Donjon and such. I don't think this is a move against homebrewing a setting as much as offering an alternative (and one long-demanded) to the Forgotten Realms.
 


Hi everyone. Recentely I've seen the Pointy Hat DMG review, and he raises the concern about missing worldbuilding tables. Also I think he also said there are no random dungeon tables (don't quote on me on this, I've seen it yesterday) and no random encounters. This morning I had a doubt and checked the GM Core Pathfinder 2e manual, and I notice that it misses the same things, instead giving you a "complete" setting (Age of Lost Omens for one, Geyhawk for the other).

The idea that WotC is not giving you tools for building new settings/monsters/magic item to promote their books is not too wrong, but everyone who previewed this book said that this lead to a more beginner's friendly DM book, having more space for teaching the really base things (and for this I'm happy).

BUT
These "missing bits" weren't felt on GM Core, because who plays Pf2e prefer to use Golarion and all the Adventure Paths and premade adventures Paizo publishes (often ranging to very good to excellent, something I don't feel on WotC adventures).

So... this means WotC really started to hope people will not homebrew new things anymore? Or they will publish a "DMG2" (obvious with another name) with the missing tables from the 2014 DMG, along with other tools to help people create their dungeons, towns, wilderness, world, cosmology. That would be a great book, altough it would have to fight with some excellent other tool books, starting with older DMGs they still sell on DMsGuild.

Do you think, (based on preview) that WotC is pulling a Paizo on us?
PF1 had a gamemastery and campaign guide that was pretty good at showing players how to build their own setting and homebrew. I am guessing that will follow into PF2. That said, everything I have read about Greyhawk on 2024 5E is laid out to show players how to do it themselves. It's a sandbox setting level of instruction. So, I dont agree with not getting tools for building new settings/monsters/magic.

The real rub, is the slow publishing pace. WotC has made a deliberate decision not to splat the customer to death. I think that might be why folks feel the tools are unfulfilled.
 


I think it is more likely that they received a decade of feedback that the oodles of tables (sweet, delicious random tables...) were not being used or were overwhelming. So...they cut that for more pragmatic content.
I could see them publishing something like the Manual of the Planes with cues to create cosmologies and planar sub-worlds, along with theme appropriate random tables and maps.

Then do the same with wilderness and urban themes.
 

I could see them publishing something like the Manual of the Planes with cues to create cosmologies and planar sub-worlds, along with theme appropriate random tables and maps.

Then do the same with wilderness and urban themes.
Yeah, I could easily see a "Builders Guide" that went even deeper into suggestions and procedures for building stuff than the 2014 DMG side. Hinestly, the 2014 DMG went so deep it may have made that sort of product too redundant, this tike around theybcan go even harder on it, without mixing it with "how to run a game" stuff.
 

One thought: places where we did see further in-depth builder advice in the past decade were the big Campaign Setting books, like Ravnica or Eberron. We are getting a double whammy next year, a detailed players and DM seperate books for the Forgotten Realms. It would not surprise me if a lot of the dungeon and Adventure building material made it way to the Forgotten Realms Adventure Guide, wirh further boosts for different genre Setting books.
 

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