D&D 5E D&D Next Design Goals (Article)

[Bedrockgames]

I can't be convinced because trying to balance over a longer period of time isn't anything new. I've seen it at the table, over years and years of play, and I've concluded that it is not what I consider balance. Your reasoned argument does nothing to dispel my experience.

I can certainly accept it isnt a kind of balance that works for you. Bt it does work for lots of people. Not just that but 4e style encounter parity oesn't work for us.

 

[thecasualoblivion]

I can certainly accept it isnt a kind of balance that works for you. Bt it does work for lots of people. Not just that but 4e style encounter parity oesn't work for us.

Then the question becomes how important is it to you? Is it a deal breaker? After enjoying 4E for its balance, I'm not willing to accept significantly less of it from 5E. I think I'm far from alone in that regard. If that balance isn't present in at least a modular sense, there is zero chance I will switch to 5E. Zero. Again, I don't think I'm alone in that. I can accept that it doesn't work for you, can you accept that at this point, for me without that balance it's not a D&D worth playing?

 

[Incenjucar]

Yes, you average it out over the long run. But you are also not using encounters alone as the measure (you can balance with non combat situations in mind as well). Also if you drop the daily and encounter powers for the classes (and go back to normal vancian casting for spellcasters) it becomes less of a concern since fighters and rogues are not running out of dailies. I really dont think it is a big deal. It wint be as rigidly balanced as 4E but i think that is a good thing.

What?

With the exception of the spellcasters, a game without encounter and daily powers would be more rigidly balanced. Unless you're going to suggest they make every party require spellcasters to survive again.

 

[Bedrockgames]

What?

With the exception of the spellcasters, a game without encounter and daily powers would be more rigidly balanced. Unless you're going to suggest they make every party require spellcasters to survive again.

I dont see how taking out the 4e powers makes it more rigidly balanced (i was not suggesting retaining at will 4e powers). Either way though I seriously doubt the 4e powers system will be in the core.

 

[Bedrockgames]

u, can you accept that at this point, for me without that balance it's not a D&D worth playing?

I have accepted that since you first stated your position. Like I said, it is unlikely both of us will get exactly what we want with 5e.

 

[Incenjucar]

I dont see how taking out the 4e powers makes it more rigidly balanced (i was not suggesting retaining at will 4e powers). Either way though I seriously doubt the 4e powers system will be in the core.

If you have no at-will powers, no encounter powers, and no daily powers, you have no standard way to interact with the world.

Punching someone in the face is an at-will power.

 

[thecasualoblivion]

I have accepted that since you first stated your position. Like I said, it is unlikely both of us will get exactly what we want with 5e.

If 5E can't reconcile conflicting desires(this particular one is far from alone) than the goal of unifying D&D under one game is futile.

 

[Bedrockgames]

If you have no at-will powers, no encounter powers, and no daily powers, you have no standard way to interact with the world.

Punching someone in the face is an at-will power.

No it isn't. It is a standard game action. 4e codified such actions into at wills.prior to 4e people were not really walking around with this at will power concept.

 

[Incenjucar]

No it isn't. It is a standard game action. 4e codified such actions into at wills.prior to 4e people were not really walking around with this at will power concept.

An at-will power is anything that you can do at-will. These have existed in every edition. Same with daily powers. Encounter powers are the only novelty of 4E, and I believe they were introduced in 3E.

4E just gave those powers a name. Just like Napoleon Complexes existed before Napoleon.

--

Warrior Melee Full Attack
You steady yourself, then lash out with a flurry of deadly blows.
At-Will * Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Requirement: You must not have moved during this turn, except to shift up to one square.
Hit: 1[W]+Strength modifier damage
Level 6: Make a second attack against the same or a different target. This attack has a -5 penalty to hit.
Level 11: Make a third attack against the same or a different target. This attack has a -10 penalty to hit.
Level 16: Make a fourth attack against the same or a different target. This attack has a -15 penalty to hit.
Special: After using this power, you are unable to use actions to move, except to shift up to one square, until the end of your turn. If you have already shifted this turn, you cannot shift again until the end of your turn.

 

[Bedrockgames]

An at-will power is anything that you can do at-will. These have existed in every edition. Same with daily powers. Encounter powers are the only novelty of 4E, and I believe they were introduced in 3E.

4E just gave those powers a name. Just like Napoleon Complexes existed before Napoleon.

--

Warrior Melee Full Attack
You steady yourself, then lash out with a flurry of deadly blows.
At-Will * Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Requirement: You must not have moved during this turn, except to shift up to one square.
Hit: 1[W]+Strength modifier damage
Level 6: Make a second attack against the same or a different target. This attack has a -5 penalty to hit.
Level 11: Make a third attack against the same or a different target. This attack has a -10 penalty to hit.
Level 16: Make a fourth attack against the same or a different target. This attack has a -15 penalty to hit.
Special: After using this power, you are unable to use actions to move, except to shift up to one square, until the end of your turn. If you have already shifted this turn, you cannot shift again until the end of your turn.

I agree there were powers you could use at will, and I agree there were powers that had daily limits ( though some were more than once a day). But I dont think at wills as expressed in 4e are the same as the actions you could use at will in previous editions of the game. One look at the second half of your post shows how different this becomes inside the framework of 4e. 4e didn't just offer language for concepts that existed in previous editions, it attached things to those terms that greatly altered the game.