D&D 5E D&D Next weekly art column!

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Jon, I applaud that you are attempting to consider this issue, I'm afraid the actual issue of sexism in art (and the related issue, sexual objectification) flew past you and your straw pollsters. I would highly suggest getting some advice from some feminists rather than a quick scan of the internet. It should not be difficult for you to get some information from people who are both avid fans of fantasy and well-educated in the topic. There are websites devoted to these discussions.

All of the folks I did the straw poll with were self proclaimed feminists. Some were in this industry, some were out side of it.

What I didn't mention in the article was that my mother is a devote and dedicated feminist. Didn't figure it mattered, but apparently many folks think that I have no understanding of the feminist movements or their tenants.

Since folks are asking me not to stereotype them based on their gender - perhaps the opposite should be true.

and thanks for the suggestions!
 

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All of the folks I did the straw poll with were self proclaimed feminists. Some were in this industry, some were out side of it.

What I didn't mention in the article was that my mother is a devote and dedicated feminist. Didn't figure it mattered, but apparently many folks think that I have no understanding of the feminist movements or their tenants.

Since folks are asking me not to stereotype them based on their gender - perhaps the opposite should be true.

and thanks for the suggestions!

Sorry, I meant more feminist in the sense of someone who actively studies and works on feminist issues, especially in regards to art, rather than someone who simply agrees with and considers themselves affiliated with the premise. I'd wager you yourself believe that a person's gender shouldn't limit their choices in life as well, which would make you a feminist, but you still humbly and bravely presented a knowledge gap to us, which implies that the feminists you know aren't imparting this knowledge to you. I'm not especially up on the issues, myself, but there are people who devote a significant part of their life to it, who you could learn a great deal from. If you already HAD all of this knowledge available to you, then you wouldn't need to bring any of this up in the first place. I'm sorry that my wording implied that your associates were non-feminists. Though I'm not sure what you mean by stereotype by gender... I'm very much a man. Regardless, I do appreciate your consideration of this very important issue.
 
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Inasmuch as D&D art can do anything about the great cultural issue of sexism (and it can do a little bit), I think there's one rule that can be implemented:

Avoid overly sexualized images unless they make sense.

This is because overly sexualizing things automatically stereotypes them, reducing them to nothing more than secondary sex characteristics, visually.

This isn't to say that sexualized images are "wrong" per se. They have their place. The world of fashion might avoid a lot of overt sexism, but the models are still highly sexualized. That's relevant for the world of fashion since the human body must be an attractive canvass for the display of textile art.

In D&D, a picture of a succubus might be highly sexualized. That's relevant: part of what a succubus is is sex.

But a picture of an adventure need not be highly sexualized. It's irrelevant for most adventurers. The tiefling in the post is highly sexualized, and there's no internal logic to that. Her ample bosoms aren't part of her character. There's no internal reason to look like she looks. She looks that way simply to appeal to under-sexed men who read comic books. Her visual appearance is pure and simple fanservice.

This doesn't mean that all adventurers need to dress is form-hiding armor and be androgynous, either. They're heroic characters, and they should absolutely look it. But when you look at heroic women, you shouldn't be looking at Frank Frazetta paintings.

Compare the awkward pose and overt displays of the woman on the cover of the 4e PHB with, say, any depiction of Athena pre-1950. Athena -- a goddess of wisdom and battle -- is absolutely a heroic figure. Sex isn't part of her bag, so she's not generally depicted as overtly sexualized (even when she's nude, like a lot of the paintings of the judgement of Paris). Aphrodite, by comparison (still a heroic figure!) is usually sexualized, because that's part of her character. And she's still not often contorted into "stripper poses" for the viewing/wanking pleasure of thirteen year old boys.

Given that D&D artwork generally doesn't go deep into character psychology, this makes it harder to say "Character X is depicted as super sexual because she IS super sexual." This makes it harder to pull off the legitimately super-sexualized images.

Like everything else with character design: there should be a reason for a feature. The choice says something about the character. If your character has D cups and dresses to expose everything except the nipples, that should be a consequence of something in the character that emerges in that light (such as being a succubus...or some sort of stripper-adventurer who uses Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mammaries every morning, or something).

Take the character of Seoni, from the Pathfinder game. She's showing a lot of skin, but there's an in-character reason for that (exposing the tattoos that mark status amongst her people). Not that she doesn't get absurdly sexualized from that (ugh), but at least I can accept the internal logic of her ribbons-of-fabric clothing style. I'd expect to see her surrounded by other characters who show a lot of skin when she's in her home environment, too -- those tatoos are proudly displayed on even haggard old women and fat dudes. It's part of that fantasy culture, and that works.

The character of Gloria from Modern Family gets away with a lot of overt sexiness, too, but, again, it's part of the character: part of what she is from a character-design perspective is a woman who plays with the "trophy wife" stereotype, tweaking it and lampooning it.

D&D can't get away with that so easily, being typically light on the "core setting material." The context that makes Seoni make sense isn't there for "Illustration On Page 72." So erring on the side of "don't look like you are trying to arouse and titillate" is reasonable.

Again, not exclusively. Heroic characters should look heroic, and characters who ARE about sexual allure (Succubi, possibly a Sorcerer who uses Enchantment magic, a Bard who trains as a courtesan, creatures that are all about beauty like lillendi, the goddess of love, etc.) can be sexual. They should also be of a host of genders and gender identities, of course.

But there's little reason for most women adventurers who spend their days covered in blood and ichor in the depths of guano-strewn caves and mould-covered dungeons murdering things to look like part-time strippers in their adventuring lives.

And for the love of frig, keep the poses in mind. That lady on the cover of the 4e PHB might not be quite so onerous if she wasn't posed like she just can't stop grinding her bum on that dragonman.
 
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I could write a thesis on this topic... But for brevity, I'll just answer the questions.

If you were going to write the visual guidelines for D&D, what would be important to you? Would you require that we aim for an equal number of female and male depictions? Realistic poses? Standardized proportions? Or would you swing the other direction and ask for something completely different? This is your chance to be heard and to make your mark on the next iteration of D&D. How many times will you have the ear of the creative director like this? Be bold and make your voice heard.

Variety is the spice of art. That's what would be important to me. I don't care if female and male numbers are equal or not. Say they want 4 pictures in the wizard spells section. If someone thinks the wizard casting the fireball would be hotter as a female, but they have male concepts for the wizard casting lightning bolt, magic missile, and shield, then I'm perfectly happy with that. They want to show a confrontation between 3 female adventurers, a cleric, a paladin, and an acolyte fighter, against a male vampire and his two dire wolves, it's fine. I don't see a reason to straight jacket equality in male and female numbers.

Realistic/natural poses? Again, don't care, what's realistic anyway? I could take this picture, and put swords and magic in their hands, and half the viewers would complain they were in unrealistic poses, and would be surprised to find out they are real people, in (mostly) real action. I'm fine with whatever pose the artist comes up with.

Standardized proportions? Well, what did I say about variety? Applies here too. There are skinny people, tall people, short people, round faces, long faces, and all manner of builds in both males and females. I see no reason to restrict an artist's use of these elements.

Inevitably, you want some stereotypes, to capture the right feel, but scattered about, I want to see counter-stereotypes as well.
 

Though I'm not sure what you mean by stereotype by gender... I'm very much a man. Regardless, I do appreciate your consideration of this very important issue.
I wasn't clear there. Sorry.

No, I'm talking about the folks that accuse me, because I'm a fit 50 yo white male, not to have any sensitivity to gender, racial or ability concerns. Some folks assume that my sex and race determine who I am. Doesn't that just foster the stereotype of the 50 yo white male? See, we can all be sexist, racist, ageist so easily - when we are busy looking at the impact of the world on ourselves, rather than our impact on the world.

I try not to assume that I know who others are, how their experiences formed their way of being, and how they are in the world. I endeavor to accept folks just as they choose to show up...

make more sense?
 

Franzetta and Boris Vallejo.

That's allll I'm sayin' about sexism in D&D art.

DON'T DO IT!

When was the last time a loin-clothed MAN in D&D art looked "sexualized"?

Please! Go for it!

But it's not...ever. It's the females that are showin' a lil' t&a. The guys? No. Never. Or...oh so subtly, have a lil' bulge goin' on "downstairs." Muscles are muscles. They say "oo, ahh" this is some great "fantasy" champion.

I understand this is, historically, a game for "10 and up." So, obviously, one's inclination is to play to the prepubescent crowd, and then to the "horny teenager". Once upon a time, the prepubescent wouldn't even think about or acknowledge the sexualization of either sex. I know, at 10, 11, 12 even, I didn't.

It's a very different world now.

We're all adults here (or at least mature teenagers). Sex sells! We all know this. It's practically clichee.

Is it a question of "sell it or don't sell it"? OR is it a question of "don't offend this or that demographic"? Don't offend the parents wanting to bring their kids into the game?

I don't have or know the answers. I would HOPE the days of D&D is a "Satanist game" are far behind us....but then I watch CNN International and REALLY "see" America...:confused:

I would think, nowadays, toting D&D 5e as a game for 10 and up...and having some scantily clad persons (or BOTH genders!) wouldn't even flinch an eye.

That said, I MUCH prefer the "realism" of Elmore's images in the Basic and Expert books (red and blue boxes, respectively).

I REALLY think, the key is, as it was back in the day, of "good art for D&D" is to mix and match styles. Give us a "realism but sexy" of Elmore, the comic superheroes of Dee, a "fuzzy fantasy" of Easley, the realistic but harsh/heavy look of Parkinson, a "psychedelic trip" of Otus...go ahead on the sexual images of Boris Vallejo playing out titans fighting mythological monsters.

There is no "this is what D&D looks like!"

There is only what you, the players, want it to be/entail.
--SD
 

I wasn't clear there. Sorry.

No, I'm talking about the folks that accuse me, because I'm a fit 50 yo white male, not to have any sensitivity to gender, racial or ability concerns. Some folks assume that my sex and race determine who I am. Doesn't that just foster the stereotype of the 50 yo white male? See, we can all be sexist, racist, ageist so easily - when we are busy looking at the impact of the world on ourselves, rather than our impact on the world.

I try not to assume that I know who others are, how their experiences formed their way of being, and how they are in the world. I endeavor to accept folks just as they choose to show up...

make more sense?

It's just that I'm a 30 year old (mostly) white guy who was raised in the country and has lived in Fresno who has known blatantly sexist women (boy that was an uncomfortable gender studies class), and as such I don't really assume that. I can't speak for others, but if I make assumptions it's because you're a person, and most people regardless of age or gender don't really engage this topic very often or very deeply, while discussing it is actually one of my major hobbies outside of D&D. :P

It's a really really complex area with a lot of nuance and a lot of variation due to differing perspectives, so be assured that anyone is just trying to help as much as possible and cover all bases because of how important this issue is to the future of the game, gaming culture, and fantasy enthusiast culture. And again, we really appreciate the effort you're putting into this.
 

I think you can avoid the vast majority of mistakes by simply asking you you one question: "Is this picture eye-candy?". Do you expose female bodies only for the sake of showing boobs and butts? If yes, don't use it.
I can't agree with this...artists shouldn't use any art that's just "eye-candy"? What other purpose does fantasy art have? This to me is a good example of an opinion on art coming from a moralizing perspective that sounds way too restrictive from an aesthetic perspective.

(This may not fairly represent your view on the whole-- but I wanted to call attention to the way you worded it here).

I would be turned off by art if it felt contrivedly sexualized. But then I'm also turned off if the art feels like it's trying to push some kind of sociopolitical agenda.

Is it true that the art in the 3e books purposefully portray white men in submissive and embarrassing situations? That's what I heard but I don't know the whole story. That's both pretty creepy and very pretentious on behalf of the people responsible to think that they're in a position to make some sort of significant cultural impact that might possibly be worth the creepiness.

Basically: I just want fun, cool, pretty art. I don't want sexist art, but I also don't want anti-sexist art. I don't want art trying to hard to emulate old D&D art, I don't want art trying too hard to incorporate anime or other modern, not-traditionally-associated-with-D&D fantasy influences. I want the artists to be given plenty of latitude to express themselves creatively as intelligent, sensitive adults.

That said...

I'm tired of the huge breasts trope. It's not that I'm against sexy women in fantasy art. If the artist wants to make a woman sexy, if it's appropriate to the piece, go for it. But women with small breasts obviously can be still be extremely sexy. Huge boobs are not a requirement. It's kind of a lazy way to do it, really.

And yes, if there's an aesthetic reason for a sexy man in a piece, then the artist should be free to do that as well.

Although I think that depicting male characters as powerful is not completely unrelated to depicting them as sexually attractive, it's true that it's not the whole story when it comes to male sexiness.

I would like the art to be appealing to women gamers, but I think there's more overlap than what is often assumed between what men and women find appealing in fantasy art. If you want to know what women would like to see then ask women, as many as possible, not just (typically male, on the internet) feminists.
 

If you want to know what women would like to see then ask women, as many as possible, not just (typically male, on the internet) feminists.

I'm not sure why you think that feminists on the internet are typically male, but otherwise yeah. This is why it's great that there are entire online communities of women gamers, feminist or otherwise, who write heaps of blogs on these topics, many of whom I bet would be happy to offer their perspective if their input was more directly solicited.
 

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