D&D is NOT Kobolds surviving Fireball

[howandwhy99]

5th level Fireball was 5d6 +1d6/level. So the average at start was 17.5 damage with a failed save.

Kobolds were 1-4 HP. Bugbears were 3d8+1 (14.5) Both are going down, but the kobolds won't even survive the saving throw for half damage (8.75).

Ogres at 4d8+1 (19) could survive better than average even with a failed save against a 5th level fireball. Except Ogres aren't really a 5th level challenge anymore. Their weaknesses (Like Low INT) make them an opponent for even starting characters, though they're pretty tough then.

Fireball is a battlefield artillery attack. It wipes out pretty much any of the non-special humans, demi-humans, and humanoids. Stuff like werewolves on the other hand, a Medium 4d8+3 (21), travel in small packs and not 50-200 in the no. appearing.

I think stuff like this should change from setting to setting. That's part of keeping the game fresh just like new magic, but making it easily adjustable is the key... not selling the correct forms.

All that said, certain abilities will become useless if other powers and challenges are altered enough. These are what they are because they were balanced as a whole with each other. Keeping a spell or other ability relevant should be accounted for too.

 

[Dirge]

In other words, he thinks that kobolds in 4e have too many HP. Argue with this point, please.

Well, the problem is that EVERYTHING in 4E has too many HPs (including the PCs). So, I suggest simply halving the HPs of every being in the entire 4E universe (including the PCs). This has the added effect of speeding up combat as a whole and making things in general a lot more interesting (in addition to the stated goal of making kobolds more susceptible to fiery demises at the hands of wandering murder hobos with pointy hats)...

 

[Herschel]

I said at the bare minimum I wanted Fireball to kill any Kobold.

Then what you want isn't feasible. Leveling monsters has been standard fare for a number of editions now. If you want all the kobolds to be minions in your game, only use the minion versions.

 

[CleverNickName]

I do not agree with your concept / idea

That is all you really had to say.

I disagree on this one.
I'm not interested in arbitrary benchmarks based on previous editions.

I am, actually. If 5E does not have a classic look and feel, it will not appeal to a significant portion of the gaming community (me). This is the time for building bridges, not burning them.

I agree with the OP. If the average fireball cannot wipe out all ordinary kobolds within its area of effect, the game just doesn't feel right to me. As far as I'm concerned, the whole new pile of rules from recent editions (i.e., metamagic feats, minions, monster levels, evasion, hit point bloat, etc...) have all been feeble attempts at fixing something that was never broken to begin with.

Fizz, boom, kobolds are toast. Bring on the next wave.

 

[CleverNickName]

Double post.

 

[Dausuul]

I think the main issue with kobolds in 4E is that kobolds which should by rights be the bad-ass elite are presented as just regular warriors. I don't agree that any kobold should be killable with fireball. There will always be the uber-kobolds with fifteen class levels who can take the heat. But that should be a very rare exception. Any kobold whose name is given in the form "Kobold Guard #4" should go up in smoke.

The standard-issue kobold should be, to all intents and purposes, a minion. Maybe they don't literally have 1 hit point each, but no more than 2-3. Tough kobold guards might have 5-6. The chief of the tribe might have 8-9. But that should be it. Double-digit hit points should be the sign of a Great Kobold of Legend.

 

[Herschel]

Fireball is one of the defining wizard spells of D&D, and should feel like it's worth casting. If you can't kill level 1 kobolds with it - that would bug me too.

The problem is your definition of "worth casting" is single-handedly wiping out entire encounters while leaving the rest of your party sitting around twiddling their thumbs. It was quick, it was tidy.... and entirely pointless for the rest of the players to even be in the room. This happens more and more as spellcasters gain levels and is a huge flaw in the game design.

 

[Herschel]

Even with your double spacing,


I do not agree with your concept / idea,


Fireball damage as a "yardstick" is just meaningless, imo


I will dodge the idea totally


Is this odd spacing make posts better ?

Maybe if you also posted in Haiku?

 

[MacMathan]

My greybeard is showing but to me dnd kobolds are Tuckers Kobolds. Not only will they survive it they will take that wand of fireball and jam it some place uncomfortable most likely.

 

[HardcoreDandDGirl]

My greybeard is showing but to me dnd kobolds are Tuckers Kobolds. Not only will they survive it they will take that wand of fireball and jam it some place uncomfortable most likely.

Tucker's kobolds as core kobolds in 5e, and be little dog men