D&D is NOT fireball casting characters fighting kobolds

[ExploderWizard]

I just wanted to point this out as a benchmark of what D&D should feel like.

What are a bunch of 5th + level characters doing burning up insignificant little 1-4 hp kobolds.

These PCs should be seeing a therapist to help them with their inadequacy issues.

The little buggers wouldn't have any treasure worth the while anyway.

Fireballing hordes of these guys at this level just doesn't feel like D&D.

 

[HardcoreDandDGirl]

Some 7th level evil masterminds are cheap and give thee 5th level Lt 200gp to hire mercs, and when he asks how many he is told lots...
So he hires 80 kobolds at 5sp each and 25 goblins at 1gp each and 2 hobgoblins for 60gp each and comes back with change

 

[Oni]

Probably fighting whole tribes, which seems plenty D&D to me.

 

[Somebloke]

I personally assumed that kobolds just turn up when a dungeon is built and are too difficult to shoo away, like a pack of stray cats that you feed once and can never get rid of.

I agree with this OP- I mean, they spaced their lines and everything, which is a sign of conviction- DnD is a lot of things, most of them intangible, and none of them so specific as a single spell effect.

For that matter, if DnDness is determined by fireball > kobold, then what does that make Pathfinder, precisely?

Think of the legal issues. And the poor wizard who failed to kill that one kobold due to poor luck and has had inadequacy issues ever since.

 

[Doug McCrae]

I personally assumed that kobolds just turn up when a dungeon is built and are too difficult to shoo away, like a pack of stray cats that you feed once and can never get rid of.

They get into all the cracks and small holes. They're like rats.

 

[Umbran]

Did this really need a separate thread? Especially when you largely agree with the OP of the other - that kobolds are, in effect, not really supposed to be a challenge for 5th level characters to begin with?

Someone give me some angle that makes this a separate discussion, or we'll just merge the threads...

 

[ExploderWizard]

Did this really need a separate thread? Especially when you largely agree with the OP of the other - that kobolds are, in effect, not really supposed to be a challenge for 5th level characters to begin with?

Someone give me some angle that makes this a separate discussion, or we'll just merge the threads...

It wasn't meant to be serious. I was just poking a bit of fun at the other thread.

 

[Uller]

I think one of the ways 4e falls down that the op in the other thread was getting at (and don't get me wrong...there is a lot I like about 4e) is that in 1e-3e, monsters that were a reasonable challenge for a 1st level party (i.e. 4 kobalds...not minions) should effectively become minions as the party becomes higher level. The fireball vs kobalds is just an example. 4e HP inflation made it so even a very high level mage dropping a fireball in a room full of first level monsters will likely not kill any of them. In 2e and 1e a fireball doing average damage cast by a 5th level MU would nearly kill an average Ogre (5d6 damage vs 4+1 HD), in 4e, a Fireball doing max damage wouldn't even bloody an Ogre and doing average damage wouldn't bloody a lot of 1st level monsters.

The 4e fix for this is to simply reduce monster HP by 1/3-1/2.

 

[Herschel]

Well, this thread was fun and entertaining. Thanks, Uller.

 

[B.T.]

While this thread may be tongue-in-cheek, there is a valid point raised in it:

What are a bunch of 5th + level characters doing burning up insignificant little 1-4 hp kobolds.[

And this is the difference between "new school" and "old school." Although not well-versed in the ways of 2e and before, it is my understanding that adventurers would need to be cautious around such monsters because they could swarm and overwhelm players. In 3e and 4e, of course, players were nigh-invulnerable to such threats. Personally, I'd like to see a return to the older editions, where a single adventurer was not a one-man kobold-killing army. Stabilizing the growth of AC and HP would do much to curb the power of PCs and make them think twice about their actions.