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Wands and Staffs: Impliment or Spell Containers

What should wands and staffs do in 5e?

  • Hold charges to cast certain spells (Like in 3e)

    Votes: 16 13.8%
  • Help caster cast better (Like in 4e)

    Votes: 74 63.8%
  • Other

    Votes: 26 22.4%

I like the idea that scrolls are either for rituals or for casting spells above your level. This latter requires that they be difficult and expensive to craft, to the point where they always remain a far more limited resource than the caster's normal spell slots.
 

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Why not a bit of both?

The main reason wands caused some problems in 3e was that they held 50 charges. That's an enormous number.

But if a wand held just 10 charges, and granted bonuses to casting the stored spell as long as it is held in hand and has at least one charge left, that would be pretty cool.
 

The phrasing of the L&L article - talking about "reducing caster dominance" for instance - seems to imply that Mr. Mearls is working from older editions of the game, rather than working from 4e. If he were, he wouldn't be concerned about 'reducing' something that has already been largely eliminated.

Similarly, the issue of 'limiting' wands to storing only a sub-set of spells is an issue only if you are trying to improve AD&D or 3e.

If we were to look at these issues with a more linear sense of time, a more straightforward phrasing might be something like. "We are debating how much high-level caster dominance we want to restore."

They're going back to full Vancian wizards, so it makes sense - there're no actual game problems to talk about with 4E wizards.
 
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This thread is filled with so many bad ideas it seems like every one suffered a severe head trauma simultaneously...

Moderator here. It's cool if you don't like someone's ideas, but don't make personal attacks just because you happen to disagree (or at all). If you have any questions about this, PM me.
-Darkness


And this poll options are lacking, what about 2e style of wands and staves? Every one keeps going on about 3e and 4e and ignoring previous editions.

I don't like wands and staves as implements because that suggest non flat math, I also don't like 3e way of dealing with those mainly because of the item creation rules that caused players to go around with a quiver of 1st level wands (not in my games, I put my foot down on that).

I like the idea of wands, staves and rods being artifact of magical power. Back in 2e days, when you had a cap on the number of known spells per level and had to roll each time you tried to learn a new spell, finding a wand of a spell you didnt knew was a big thing, finding a named stave was bigger, especially if you used the rules for activation words.

I agree that wands shouldn't be single spell devices, they should be special and evocative like this:

Wand of Frost: A frost wand can perform three functions that duplicate wizard spells:
• Ice storm: A silvery ray springs forth from the wand and an ice (or sleet) storm occurs up to 60 feet away from the wand holder. This function requires one charge.
• Wall of ice: The silvery ray forms a wall of ice, six inches thick, covering a 600-square-foot area (10' x 60', 20' x 30', etc.). Its initiative modifier is +2, and it uses one charge.
• Cone of cold: White crystalline motes spray forth from the wand in a cone with a 60-foot length and a terminal diameter of 20 feet. The initiative modifier is +2, and the effect lasts just one second. The temperature is -100 degrees F and damage is 6d6, treating all 1s rolled as 2s (6d6, 12-36). The cost is two charges per use. Saving throw vs. wands is applicable. The wand can function once per round, and may be recharged.​

This is no minor magic item, this baby packs a punch. Here is another one:
Staff of Curing: This device can cure disease, cure blindness, cure wounds ( 3d6+3 hit points), or cure insanity. Each function drains one charge. The device can be used once per day on any person (dwarf,elf,gnome,half-elf, halfling included), and no function may be employed more than twice per day(i.e., the staff can function only eight times during a 24-hour period). It can be recharged.​

Those are interesting magical items, I don't understand why people wants to lower those to a small bonus to what ever, how can having a +1 wand be more evocative than a wand of Frost? Why the hell must all staves add a defensive bonus? Why should I care about my stave if it's somthing as mundane as an implement? I had players going through hell and high water (literally!!) recovering a Staff of the Magi stolen by a bunch of imps and the player only new three of the staff command words.

My point is that magical items should be magical, they should be hard to acquire and offer clear benefits that makes the character better and more powerfull, even if in a small way.

I had a DM that didn't had a problem with player made scrolls, in fact we had an house rule saying that if you have a spell of a higher level than you can currently cast you can try and make a scroll out of it, the catch was that it cost you XP to make a scroll so we didn't run around with 10 scrolls of knock or spider climb.

Warder
 
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Expect for the fact 4e wizards don't feel like a wizard... Or as my players like to say, the wizard sucks.

Warder

That's not an actual game problem. 4E wizards do not screw up the 4E game. They're just not what particular people want. Pre-4E wizards can screw up the games they're a part of, at least in 2E and 3E. Some people may ENJOY that, but some people also enjoy cheat codes.
 

That's not an actual game problem. 4E wizards do not screw up the 4E game. They're just not what particular people want. Pre-4E wizards can screw up the games they're a part of, at least in 2E and 3E. Some people may ENJOY that, but some people also enjoy cheat codes.

I would argue that it's part of the fragmentation problem... And I don't think that 2e had the same amount of problems with magic users breaking the game the way 3e did, simply because 3e disregarded all the things that kept MU in check.

In 2e, when a wizard managed to cast a fire ball and fry 20 orcs all the group felt like they accomplished somthing because it had to be a group effort to pull somthing like that, unlike 3e that made it easy mode to be a spell caster and penalized extra attacks for for non MU.

Warder
 

... Those are interesting magical items, I don't understand why people wants to lower those to a small bonus to what ever, how can having a +1 wand be more evocative than a wand of Frost? ...

I don't think most people are actually asking for implements exactly like 4E where they provide bonuses. Though they could, I suppose. More people seem interested in concepts much like you describe.
 

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