D&D 5E Notes from the underground: a few opening thoughts about D&D Next or 5e.

[thedungeondelver]

Going forward, let me say that this doesn't discuss mechanics much. I read what 4e players write about mechanics and get a serious case of MEGO (to be fair I also do when reading PATHFINDER and 3e mechanics discussion) so sadly for people who delve (ha!) deeply into that, there's none of it.

Also, these are just a few jotted-off thoughts, a sort of appetizer if you will, for the main course to come as people play.

Finally, this covers the playtesting I did in March and April, not necessarily what has just come today. My likes/dislikes may well have been addressed. I don't know, the latest playtest packet download is made of fail (seriously, I click the email link and get taken to a Wizards "Help" page that tells me what I'm asking for is a FAQ in Japanese. yes.)

Without further ado...

Notes from a die-hard 1e fan:

Character Creation: Hm. It's hard to mention without violating the "no mechanics" post rule. SO I will say this: I understand if the mods yank it. With that said: 4d6 6 times, drop lowest, arrange to taste. IOW, "Method II". LIKE. STRONG LIKE. Yes, racial and class bonuses modify.

Themes: Love. It's like a little on paper version of your miniature; a character sketch, that adds a little emergent gameplay to the DM's arsenal of "What happens next" tools.

I like themes enough that I am going to incorporate them into my 1e games.

Magic: Love/Hate. Love that it's vancian and all of the classic spells seem to be back. Hate the fact that it's so fiddly, mechanically. Basically it's I as caster roll to see how "strong" my spell will be, then roll an attack, then you as a target roll to resist (save). I would likely discard how magic works entirely and go back to the 1e system. I see magic-users becoming just overpowering at low levels otherwise. Here's the good news: D&Dn seems to support that amount of modularity. More on that at the bottom.

Saving throws: Like. There are more, and more granular ones again.

Combat: Like. Fast, fluid, just how it should be. Did not seem fiddly at all. Left a lot to the DMs discretion. I hope that's a feature not a bug. Example: I jumped over a running stream, grabbed a goblin by the head, and killed him by smooshing my thumbs into his eye sockets. There's no "tumbling" nor "grappling" or anything involved with that, I just told the DM what I was going to do and he had me make a to-hit roll to grab the goblin, then a strength roll, with a sufficiently high enough roll indicative of goring out the goblin's brains.

Modularity: I saw...one? thing in the rules that was boxed as "Optional rule!". If they're going to try and sell it on the idea of modularity this needs to be addressed.

All in all, the game felt like a heavily houseruled Moldvay BASIC D&D. And that is a very, very good thing.

So to sum up: Themes: YAY. Magic: BOO! Combat: YAY! Modularity: WTF.

 

[Arytiss]

Magic: Love/Hate. Love that it's vancian and all of the classic spells seem to be back. Hate the fact that it's so fiddly, mechanically. Basically it's I as caster roll to see how "strong" my spell will be, then roll an attack, then you as a target roll to resist (save). Magic users get a spell called Javelin of Fire they can spam non-stop. Sleep sucks now, it's now no longer the go-to spell for magic-users. I would likely discard how magic works entirely and go back to the 1e system. I see magic-users becoming just overpowering at low levels otherwise. Here's the good news: D&Dn seems to support that amount of modularity. More on that at the bottom.

I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with you on the matter of sleep. As you say it was the go-to spell for magic users. One of the things WotC is trying to eliminate is that the idea that some abilities are "Go-to". We as players have been asking for more freedom of choice for years. By levelling the playing field among abilities WotC is allowing us that choice, rather than simply giving us the illusion of choice we had for spells in all the previous editions.

 

[dammitbiscuit]

Not sure how "javelin of fire... again" is any worse than "attack with my sword... again".

Hopefully with the toned-down Sleep, M-U players won't be derided for choosing other spells for a change.

 

[dammitbiscuit]

Yay crappy wi fi, yay double post.

 

[thedungeondelver]

I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with you on the matter of sleep. As you say it was the go-to spell for magic users. One of the things WotC is trying to eliminate is that the idea that some abilities are "Go-to". We as players have been asking for more freedom of choice for years. By levelling the playing field among abilities WotC is allowing us that choice, rather than simply giving us the illusion of choice we had for spells in all the previous editions.

First of all, that's close to edition warring, so thanks for that.

Second of all, I don't want the "playing field leveled". I want there to be a time when fighters shine, and other times when magic users shine, other times when thieves shine.

Suffice to say we have very different philosophies about it and best leave it at that.

 

[slobster]

First of all, that's close to edition warring, so thanks for that.

Second of all, I don't want the "playing field leveled". I want there to be a time when fighters shine, and other times when magic users shine, other times when thieves shine.

Suffice to say we have very different philosophies about it and best leave it at that.

I don't think he meant levelling the playing field between spellcasters and mundanes. He meant level the field between the spell sleep and other spells at the same level.

Having an option available (let's say sleep versus magic missile) which is far and away more effective isn't really a choice for certain playstyles. You'll always pick the optimal option. This is in contrast to a system that offers choices with situational advantages, where obviously you'll have to make some decisions and tradeoffs. But there essentially isn't a tradeoff with older versions of the sleep spell; it's always a good choice.

Of course some people will make their choices based on roleplaying and other factors, and that's great. But making a system with balanced choices does nothing to restrict that playstyle, while a system with poorly balanced options ruins the optimizer's chance to make meaningful choices.

I think that's what he was saying. If it isn't, that's still what I would say .

 

[TerraDave]

Spells casting seems to have been streamlined. Either attack or save, not both, and no caster check. (wizard casting also a little more "vancian" then cleric casting).

Sleep slows everything, can only drop goblins, etc. Might want to build in some scaling there.

EDIT: And thanks for the info!

 

[hafrogman]

This covers the playtesting I did in March and April, not necessarily what has just come today.

If you have gotten a look at today's playtest package, I'm curious if the pre-gen characters have changed at all. There are some inconsistencies with the 'How to Play' document. The document is dated 5/24/2012 . . . the pre-gens just (c)2012. So I was wondering if the pre-gens actually belong to the older version you playtested.

 

[Arytiss]

I think that's what he was saying. If it isn't, that's still what I would say .

It is indeed what I was saying. Thank you for putting it more clearly.

 

[mlund]

Yep, there's no "power roll" of any sort of Sleep anymore. Mearls mentioned those mechanics were so unpopular in Friends and Family playtest that they dropped them for the Open Playtest. For spells you've just got HP ceilings, saving throws, attack rolls, and damage rolls (not all at the same time, typically).

I like what I see. I was really happy to see Shocking Grasp and the old "Caught you wearing metal armor," clause in there!

- Marty Lund