Awfully Alarmed About Armour

[Abstruse]

I've got to say I hate armor as DR in D&D. I play Shadowrun which has a somewhat similar take on armor, but it fits with Shadowrun's mechanics. In D&D, it just adds extra bookkeeping and screws around with HP, damage, and other parts of game balance. It really, really bugs me even though I know logically that it reflects reality more closely. Same thing with a soldier in heavy plate armor bouncing around dodging attacks. It's realistic and historically accurate, but it really messes with the feel of the game IMO.

Personally, I'd like to see both of those as optional modules in an advanced combat book. It is the sort of thing that should be available for the players who like it. But it shouldn't be the core mechanic because that's not how the game works damnit! Now get off my lawn you whippersnappers!

 

[Holy Bovine]

So with the confirmation in a recent Rule-of-Three article that humans will receive some pretty hefty bonuses to starting ability scores, I have become convinced that low-level Rogues, etc. with an 18 Dexterity will be fairly common.

This means that even low-level Dex-based characters will be able to achieve the same Armor Class as a Fighter in plate armour (i.e. 17) by spending only a measly 25gp to purchase studded leather.

Since the Fighter will almost certainly not have plate available to him in the beginning, this means that that Rogue's AC will very easily be much greater than that of a low-level Fighter. Even a Dex 14 Rogue will have an AC equal to that of the starting Fighter in chainmail.

This is unsatisfactory.

The Legends & Lore Fighter Design Goals article led me to believe that the Fighter would have a "high AC" (which is promised in the same paragraph in which it is noted that the Fighter would have access to the heaviest armour, leading me to believe that heavy armour would afford the best AC). I don't consider the mail-clad beginning Fighter's AC to be very high, especially when this is easily eclipsed by the Rogue for minimal effort.

Many--heck, maybe most--players have issues that will "make-or-break" this new edition of the game for them; well, this is mine. I want to see heavy armour represented as being effective. I feel that it got shortchanged in the past two editions; it was all too easy and disgustingly common for characters in little to no armour to have ACs that surpassed those of the heavy armour-wearers.

If heavy armour doesn't work as I feel that it should, I will not feel that my favorite fantasy archetype of the Knight in Shining Armour is adequately supported. I don't want to be forced to play a lightly-armoured Swashbuckler-type in order to be effective and have a high expectation of survival.

Please, WotC, do something about the armour. I don't even care what it is--I'll shut up and be happy with a +1 AC boost to all heavy armour, or with it granting a modest amount of DR, or even a well-developed feat tree/chain to do both or either of those things that is open only to classes that use heavy armour.

I have to disagree. I don't want the fighter to have the best AC - I want the fighter to be the guy who can take the most punishment. The Rogue can have a great AC but just a FEW hits should have him either running for the cleric or unconcious in a puddle of his own blood. Those same hits should be trivial to the fighter - mere flesh wounds or a mild bruise and him still standing saying - 'Is that all you got?'. Defense inflation isn't the way for me - I would much rather see the fighter with two, even three times the HPs as a Rogue or Wizard but have only middling defenses. Armour is not the be all end all of defense - speed and mobility count for way more in combat (in terms of being hit that is)

 

[BobTheNob]

On the "difference between armor being better AC means you need more gold". My experience is that this is not a good approach. The thing is you dont really have that much trouble getting the gold together. Then you get it, and by level X you have Dragon plate. So everyone who is a heavy armor wearer wears dragon plate. Then what? There is only really 3 armor types in the entire game : the best light, the best medium, the best heavy.

I just find this a really boring result. I would much prefer that armors have reasons to wear them and reasons not to wear them. That each type of armor you came up with could stand on its own merits and not be defined by its (irrelevant) cost.

On the armor grants DR bit. I looked ar DR on armor as a houserule in D&D past. I always dismissed it as I had trouble balancing it in as, generally, damage didnt scale enough to justify it as putting it in quickly became the path to high tolerance. Always looked good when I started, but by the time I had finished the calculations I always ended up throwing it out before it hit the table. The thing that is interesting here is the promise that damage will scale. How much by? Enough to balance in DR? There is potential for another armor defining facet to be introduced here.

 

[KidSnide]

On the "difference between armor being better AC means you need more gold". My experience is that this is not a good approach. The thing is you dont really have that much trouble getting the gold together. Then you get it, and by level X you have Dragon plate. So everyone who is a heavy armor wearer wears dragon plate. Then what? There is only really 3 armor types in the entire game : the best light, the best medium, the best heavy.

That has been my experience in every version of D&D I've ever played. Unless you want to make armor a lot more complicated than it is, there are only so may "best" choices. Once the PCs get enough resources to get whatever choice is best for that character, the variety of party armor will reduce to those choices. After that, everyone wants magic armor.

I don't think anyone has suggested a plausible alternative to that dynamic. In 4e, PCs effectively started with their best armor (unless they took feats to get a better type later on). I'd just like to see some options that are expensive enough that it takes a few levels to get there. That allows DMs to postpone giving out magic items until after the PCs have acquired the best mundane items.

-KS

 

[Thalain]

I believe DR is the best way to actually model heavy armor. In terms of "avoiding to get hit for any damage" a nimble but little armored user is equivalent to one who has heavy armor but no speed. However, a hit against a lightly armored person just hurts more than one that barely penetrates the joint of a heavy suit.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

I believe DR is the best way to actually model heavy armor. In terms of "avoiding to get hit for any damage" a nimble but little armored user is equivalent to one who has heavy armor but no speed. However, a hit against a lightly armored person just hurts more than one that barely penetrates the joint of a heavy suit.

Rolemaster does this really, really well. D&D, not so much.

 

[ArmoredSaint]

I don't want the fighter to have the best AC - I want the fighter to be the guy who can take the most punishment.

And I think that the Fighter having the best AC is the best way to enable him to be able to take the most punishment without resorting to hit-point bloat.

 

[Melhaic]

Heavy armor should grant DR: light armor allows you to be agile, avoiding blows. Heavy armor soaks it. Simple, and intuitive as well as distinguishing each clearly (more than simple bonuses would in my opinion).

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Heavy armor should grant DR: light armor allows you to be agile, avoiding blows. Heavy armor soaks it. Simple, and intuitive as well as distinguishing each clearly (more than simple bonuses would in my opinion).

D&D doesn't account for degree of precision in a strike for damage. Armor as DR effectively makes you immune to minor threats-- which is bad-- and is barely helpful against major threats. If you're trading AC for DR, you're losing.

 

[Melhaic]

I'm not saying AC should be traded for DR; rather DR should be in addition to a high AC (at least higher than light armor: i.e. a high dex rogue should approach a heavily armored fighter in AC, but the tank gets DR as well))