I want to see one book

Another argument for more books with smaller page count...I hate hate hate hate hate buying things I don't need. I sat on buying Monster Vault for my 4e game for two months because I flat out hated the idea of spending $30 for a boxed set. The Heroes of Fallen/Forgotten Lands/Kingdoms and Rules Compendium were digest-sized paperbacks with a $20 price point*. The Monster Vault was exactly that same style and size book, but also included several sheets of tokens (which I don't use because I own minis), a poster map (which I hate because they can't be re-used, I'm locked into a dungeon design, and it's hard to hide areas from players), and an adventure (that I'd never run because it didn't fit with my campaign and I didn't like the story of) all in a box (which wouldn't fit on any of my bookshelves). Therefore, they wanted to me to pay $10 more for a bunch of crap I had no use for and frankly just got given or thrown away.

What does this have to do with Next? They've stated that a DMG-type book is going to have a lot of advice for newer DMs for how to run a game. I've been gaming since 1992. I'm pretty much always the DM/GM/ST/whatever when I run a game. I've run every edition of D&D (except B/X), Shadowrun, Vampire, Paranoia, Mechwarrior, and dozens of others. I know how to run a damn game.

If the DMG is 250 pages and 100 of those pages are all about advice and guidance for how to run a game, it would annoy the crap out of me because I don't need "Dungeonmastering for Dummies" to be a required purchase to get lists of magic items, random generation tables, rules for creating NPCs, lists of traps, etc. It would be like purchasing the PHB and having a third of the book taken up by that "What is Roleplaying?" article that's in the front of every single game ever written ever. It feels like a waste of money to me.

Now, that sort of advice is good. It's important for newer DMs so they don't have to go around to a dozen different blogs just to get the sort of tips, tricks, and techniques that most of us have picked up over the years through experience. It really should be available for the players who need it. But players who don't need it shouldn't be forced to buy it just to get information they do need.

It also adds however many pages to a book that I'm going to be referencing during gameplay that has absolutely no use during gameplay. I don't want to have to flip past a massive write-up on how to make an NPC seem "real" in order to find out what the attack bonus for a level 5 Noble is.

That's why I think they should split the books based upon how the content is used. Is the information typically used during prep time? Put it in a book to be referenced before the game. Is the information typically used during the game itself? Put it in a book to be referenced during the game.

* For the record, the price points I'm quoting are the retail cover prices and while I doubt anyone's going to pay that much with all the ways to get discounts, it's still going to be the same ratios.
 

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So it's not AD&D is what you mean then.

Also, BECMI had a lot more books than that. There were two books in the Basic Set, one in Expert, two in Companion, two in Master and two in Immortal, for a total of nine.

Nine books or it's not D&D, period!
Essentially, yes. I learned on AD&D, never even knew Basic existed until long after it had been discontinued. Besides, AD&D had long established the three book formula before Basic gained the Expert books. Regardless, 5E is evolving from the AD&D->2E->3E->4E line, not Basic.
 

Essentially, yes. I learned on AD&D, never even knew Basic existed until long after it had been discontinued. Besides, AD&D had long established the three book formula before Basic gained the Expert books. Regardless, 5E is evolving from the AD&D->2E->3E->4E line, not Basic.
Except for the four core classes, the stripped-down feel of the rules presented so far, the initial module being the one included in the original Red Box, and the fact the developers have specifically mentioned BECMI several times in the lead-up to the playtest...sure.
 

Except for the four core classes, the stripped-down feel of the rules presented so far, the initial module being the one included in the original Red Box, and the fact the developers have specifically mentioned BECMI several times in the lead-up to the playtest...sure.
It is almost as if they have talked about the Paladin and the Assassin among others in addition to the core four. They are committed to including the classes from the first Player's Handbooks in this book. They may have mentioned BECMI a few times, but hardly a day goes by where before they mention AD&D and its derivatives A LOT. They have also said no Elf or Dwarf class too.

I am not saying Basic isn't going to be an influence, but the AD&D derivatives seem to be a much bigger one.
 

Essentially, yes. I learned on AD&D, never even knew Basic existed until long after it had been discontinued. Besides, AD&D had long established the three book formula before Basic gained the Expert books. Regardless, 5E is evolving from the AD&D->2E->3E->4E line, not Basic.

Except your reasoning extremely flawed. If its "not Basic", they why are they using the notorious BASIC B1 - Keep on the Borderlands module?

Anyways, what I'm at least trying to say is the three book model your saying is AD&D is merely preference. Several versions of D&D have NOT followed this model, most notably the Rules Cyclopedia, which was D&D in ONE book.

For the record:

OD&D: 3 booklets
Holmes Basic: 1 book
AD&D: 3 books
D&D 81' (B/X): 2 books (Basic & Expert)
D&D 83' (BECMI): 9 books
D&D Cyclopedia: 1 book
D&D Challenger (90 something): Boxed set/folder
AD&D 1E: 3 books
AD&D 2E: 3 books
D&D 3E/3.5E: 3 books
D&D 4E: 3 books
D&D Essentials: 3 books, 2 boxed sets
 

Except your reasoning extremely flawed. If its "not Basic", they why are they using the notorious BASIC B1 - Keep on the Borderlands module?

Anyways, what I'm at least trying to say is the three book model your saying is AD&D is merely preference. Several versions of D&D have NOT followed this model, most notably the Rules Cyclopedia, which was D&D in ONE book.

For the record:

OD&D: 3 booklets
Holmes Basic: 1 book
AD&D: 3 books
D&D 81' (B/X): 2 books (Basic & Expert)
D&D 83' (BECMI): 9 books
D&D Cyclopedia: 1 book
D&D Challenger (90 something): Boxed set/folder
AD&D 1E: 3 books
AD&D 2E: 3 books
D&D 3E/3.5E: 3 books
D&D 4E: 3 books
D&D Essentials: 3 books, 2 boxed sets
By my count, that is seven three-book versions to five non-three-book versions. Three-book versions win! :P
 

Who says that the 3 book model is the best decision business wise?

This is a big buy-in for DMs in my opinion. Big buy-in for the DMs isn't necessarily the best advice if you wanna spread it out to casuals (blue ocean strategy and all that jazz).

-YRUSirius
 


By my count, that is seven three-book versions to five non-three-book versions. Three-book versions win! :P
No, six-to-six. Essentials was 4 books, two of which were only available in a boxed set. Heroes of Fallen Lands, Rules Compendium, DM Kit (boxed set), and Monster Vault (boxed set). Not sure what the other book he's talking about is unless he's including Heroes of Forgotten Kingdoms. Even still, that's five books, two of which are only in boxed sets.

And you can easily argue about 4e's "core" books considering the way the game was laid out. At the very least, most groups would have PHB1 and PHB2 since several iconic classes/races were left out of PHB1. PHB2 had half-orcs, gnomes, bards, druids, and barbarians. So it really depends on how you define "core" for that one.

Even if you don't count PHB2 as "core" for 4e, that's still a 50/50 split for the 3 book format.
 

I want 3 books. I know I'm completely in the minority, but I liked 2E's Monstrous Manual three-ring binder (for several different reasons).

I'd also like a separate Beginner/Basic Box.

The last thing I'd like is PDF support of the books (and I'd really like to see verified purchasers getting the PDF for a deep discount--something like $5 a PDF for a verified hard-copy purchase).
Here's an idea. Release 2 books, the DMG And the PHB. Then put the MM as an online PDF purchase per page and sell a binder as an accessory. Say make the PDF's a penny a piece or something. That way a DM can purchase the monsters he likes and leave the ones out he doesn't(I find I only use about half the monsters in any given MM), and for the "purist" they can purchase all of the monsters as a single PDF "bundle" for a single price.

This would allow for easy editing of typos, errata, etc. (the PDF purchase being a one time purchase with unlimited downloads) and also create a steady revenue for the company. Every so often they can release a "compendium" of new monsters (new book). Lather, rinse, repeat.

Okay, so, yeah, they will never do it. But it would be an great idea.
 

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