Druid or Cleric?

[CleverNickName]

Tell me how shapechanging and animal companions are going to work cleanly in the rules, and then I can tell you how the druid (and ranger) fits into that.

They will probably make Wild Shape into a spell, like they did with Turn Undead. That's the most elegant way to do it, IMO.

As for animal companions, I'm not sure. It seems to me that any character who is willing to learn about animal training should be able to train a pet. So, maybe a feat?

 

[Herschel]

What does a druid have that a cleric can't replicate with the right tweaks? I mean, we can replicate a paladin or barbarian or ranger with a theme, why not a druid with a domain + theme?

Creating a list of haves and have-nots while getting the features people want/expect in the druid is the issue. It goes beyond normal domain items, for example, Clerics could get Turn Undead, or, if the right alignment, it became Control Undead. The Druid gets neither (Which, if designed as arbiter and protector of the natural order I would argue they should get more anti-undead goodies, not less, but I digress). Then they get the Wild Shape/Transformation stuff. Then....etc.

If they were just "Nature Clerics" then yeah, a theme would be fine but many (most?) people seem to want a Druid distinct from Clerics.

 

[CleverNickName]

If they were just "Nature Clerics" then yeah, a theme would be fine but many (most?) people seem to want a Druid distinct from Clerics.

If it is a theme, then it doesn't have to be associated with the cleric class at all. A rogue with the druid theme would be very different from a cleric.

 

[mlund]

Cleric Domains / Spheres look like they already give you wacky Armor and Weapon options (see Cleric of Moradin), so the Druid taking a "Primal" Sphere or Domain and getting their wacky armor / weapon combinations could already be built right into the core premises of the Cleric class.

Channel Divinity is a Cleric Class feature, while Turn Undead is just one expression of it. A Druidic substitution for abjuring beasts or elementals has historic precedent. Wild shape would work too, and level 2 gave Divine Smite to the Cleric of Moradin while the Cleric of Pelor got Channel Radiance.

Animal Companions should be part of an optional theme - just like the Familiar came in the Magic-User theme.

I don't see much value added by straying further from the Druid's roots as a Cleric sub-class and trying to role out the "Primal Power Source" all 4E style in 5E. The Druid made sense in earlier editions by drawing on the historical models as a priest or priestess of the earth mother / gaia / land spirit. Assigning the planet a Divine presence make perfect sense in most D&D settings.

Creating the "Primal" power source that's substantially different from the "Divine" power source has the unfortunate implication that in D&D's vast polytheistic construction the earth-worshipers are backwards primitives who are "different" from "civilized" people who worship "real gods."

- Marty Lund

 

[DDogwood]

Something to keep in mind is what Druid we want to see in 5e. Personally, I don't think we need the CoDzilla Druid from 3.x, and I was never a fan of the 4e Druid. Is the Druid defined by Wild Shape and an animal companion, or something else?

To me, a Druid is a nature-themed divine (or primal) spellcaster. IMO, Wild Shape and Animal Companion seem more like thematic things; if I had to choose one as "core" to a Druid, it would be Wild Shape, but I think there ought to be room for a Druid who doesn't need to shape-change.

So, from my perspective, I think Druid is doable as a Cleric with a Druid theme and/or background. But if a Druid is defined as a shapeshifter with a pet, then themes and backgrounds might not cut the mustard.

 

[Herschel]

But if a Druid is defined as a shapeshifter with a pet, then themes and backgrounds might not cut the mustard.

Which it seems a large number of people really want. I'll freely admit I think the whole shapeshifting thing is not for me and I can take-or-leave the pet concept and were I to play a 4E Druid I'd concentrate on being a caster, which the DDN theme route would probably work just fine for.

But the people I play with and DM for across editions seem to really enjoy the whole "I'm an Owlbear, rowr!" thing and I've had a lot of fun with them rolling with that schtick.

 

[Crazy Jerome]

But the people I play with and DM for across editions seem to really enjoy the whole "I'm an Owlbear, rowr!" thing and I've had a lot of fun with them rolling with that schtick.

Sure, but do they like it because they like being a shapeshifter, and druid is merely the means to that end? Or do they specifically like being a druid shapeshifter?

 

[Herschel]

They like the whole shapeshifter/primal woodland protector schtick. The 4E Druid actually works best because it's not billed as just a flavor of Cleric. Nobody's ever mentioned wanting to play The Wonder Twins where someone become a frozen bucket of spit to drop on an enemy and the animals they transform in to are generally pretty varied.