Alternative to Encounter Powers?

[ButcherMagnus]

I think encounter powers are clunky (take me out of the reality of the game, not very appropriate for non-magical classes), but I feel that some classes could use some less-than-daily / more-than-at-will powers.

Would it help any of you who also dislike encounter powers if some powers were framed like "once per minute" or "once per hour"? This would be based on basically the exertion of physical power is so great that one cannot do it constantly, which comports a bit to reality. For example, a barbarian rage is such an extreme exertion of physical energy that a barbarian can only use it once per hour. Or to appropriate the current fighter surge, a fighter can exert himself such as to attack twice in one round, but can only so exert himself once every 10 minutes. Lots of design space there.

I know it's not novel or anything, but it seems to me to be a good compromise which allows for the effective inclusion of encounter-like powers for martial characters.

 

[ren1999]

Once per minute or once per hour is really hard to track.

 

[Ahnehnois]

So is once per day.

I've tried this; it isn't a solution. The real solution is to either remove time-limited abilities or have them run off of one, centralized, meaningful reserve of energy/fatigue.

 

[Herremann the Wise]

I think if you are going the physical exertion route, then limiting this by short rest (ala 4e) seems more appropriate than the more arbitrary once per minute or once per hour that you are suggesting. I'm not a fan of just blanket saying, "no your character can't attempt that". The attempt should be able to be made, even if it is likely to fail.

If you were worried about physical exertion having an effect, you could have the action performed as many times as the character liked but each time, they cop a further penalty on attempting it until they have a short rest. For example, a super wahoo flying kick might have no penalty on the attempt the first time, and then a cumulative -2 penalty the second time, leading to a -4 penalty the third time, -6 penalty the fourth time and so on until the penalty is nullified (reset to zero) by a short rest. [Perhaps if they introduce a second wind action, then as well as recovering hit points, perhaps it allows you to ignore any penalty from the very next action.]

However, physical exertion is only one part of the "encounter action" equation, and I'm still concerned with the above idea in that anything exertion related should have something to do with constitution (the hale dwarf should not be as restricted as the sickly wizard). Further though, many "encounter actions" have absolutely nothing to do with physical exertion; they are just examples of extreme skill and occasionally circumstance. Having an arbitrary and completely unrelated limit placed on such actions sits uncomfortably with my roleplaying sensibilities. I would prefer that such actions be triggerable by either critical success (skill) or circumstances (flanking, opponent bloodied, etc.) as suits.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[pemerton]

If you were worried about physical exertion having an effect, you could have the action performed as many times as the character liked but each time, they cop a further penalty on attempting it until they have a short rest.

Rolemaster and HARP use something like this approach for "encounter" powers: Adrenal Moves (called Chi abilities in HARP) which take the form of a skill roll for a buff, and cause a penalty when the buff comes to an end, and which become increasingly difficult to sustain (penalty to the skill roll) from round to round, with the penalty when the buff ends increasing commensurately.

These work quite well in RM, but they fit into its overall swingy approach to combat (active defence, crit rolls etc). In a much less swingy, attrition-based system like D&D I don't know if they would work as well. In particular, there's almost never a reason to try a risky thing at a penalty when I could do the standard thing pretty much guaranteed.

 

[dkyle]

I don't see how once per X minutes is any more verisimilitudinous, or better in any game mechanics way, than "you must rest X minutes before you can do it again". If anything, fatigue recovery is much better modeled by resting, than by "oh, it's 5 minutes latter? You're not tired any more! Nevermind that you've been running for your life the whole time..."

I thought the usual verisimilitude objections are that different abilities have their own "fatigue", and that fatigue makes something impossible to even attempt. Your proposal satisfies neither.

If I were to tweak 4E to satisfy those objections, I'd probably make Martial power source "special" in how its powers work: you know your usual number of Encounters, but can use whichever ones you want, once per Encounter ability you have (so can repeat them). Then ways to get Encounter uses back, the way Psionic classes can get power points back. Maybe give each Martial class its own class feature for "overexertion" to use extra Encounters, at-will but at an escalating penalty, or maybe healing surge cost.

 

[Herremann the Wise]

These work quite well in RM, but they fit into its overall swingy approach to combat (active defence, crit rolls etc). In a much less swingy, attrition-based system like D&D I don't know if they would work as well. In particular, there's almost never a reason to try a risky thing at a penalty when I could do the standard thing pretty much guaranteed.

I'm sure there will be occasions when using an encounter power for a second time at let's say a -2 penalty, would be more seemingly advantageous than an at-will power without penalty? In some ways, it creates a nice decision for the player/character while never artificially saying, "no, you can't even try to do that." I think the mechanic reasonably represents the fluff here in regards to physical exertion. I still think it would do a much poorer job of representing highly skilled actions or actions based more on circumstance.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[Incenjucar]

For any power that relies on a regenerating resource (just about anything except wizards and alchemists) an Oomph System works.

Oomph System:

You get two Oomph pools. The Primary Oomph pool refreshes during a short rest. The Heroic Oomph pool refreshes on an extended rest. The Heroic Oomph pool is much harder to restore, but otherwise the Oomph from either pool does the same thing.

To use Oomph, you subtract however many Oomph points you want from either or both pools, and spend them on an ability, or the improvement of an ability. How this works can vary by the ability, and feats and powers can modify this. You can make this modify just about anything you want, from damage to to-hit to range to secondary effects to whatever.

Each class gets a suite of abilities that makes sense for it, whether at-will abilities that can be improved by Oomph, or powers that can only be activated by Oomph. Whatever works for that class.

You can simulate just about anything in D&D with an Oomph system. Even with wizards, you can just have them pre-spend Oomph in a way that locks them out of restoring Primary Oomph. Slayer? You can just spend most of your encounter Oomph at once for an encounter-long boost that lets you pull off a free single-oomph modification each round. Makes multiclassing a breeze, since all of your abilities draw from your Oomph pools, but in different ways.

 

[ren1999]

So is once per day.

I've tried this; it isn't a solution. The real solution is to either remove time-limited abilities or have them run off of one, centralized, meaningful reserve of energy/fatigue.

I would allow that if each caster player kept track of his own power reserve. But I don't want any caster having to use his or her dagger during most of the encounter because he or she ran out of spell juice.

Some powers should always be at-will. Any power that enchants the caster's weapon for example doing additional magical damage and or some effect.

 

[the Jester]

I'm okay with anything that uses real measures of time, but for some reason I just find "per encounter" troubling.